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Monday, February 8, 2010

Are We Getting the Right Answer from the Iglesia ni Cristo (1914)?

For more than a year since I had unhealthy exchanged arguments with hiding Ministers of Felix Manalo and in particular a denying member of the Iglesia ni Cristo™, they have not once told the truth either to me or to members of his cult.

In many forums and blog commentaries like that of Bro. Cenon Bibe’s TUMBUKIN NATIN, none of them have shown sincerity of heart. None of them showed any charity while answering any honest question. They DO NOT answer direct question with a direct answer but they demand Catholic Defenders to answer them directly.

The good thing while we are exchanging arguments with INC™ is that we are sure that what we are saying reflects that of which the Catholic Church teaches Christians for more than 2,000 years UNBROKEN and UNCHANGED. We are certain that by means of quoting our official position (without distortion from anti-Catholics), we can represent the splendor of Christ’s truth among those who are honestly searching for spiritual growth in Christ who is both God and man and gain sanctification through the Catholic Church—a Church not clouded by ignorance and pride.

Compared to the INC™, they have the right reason why they always resort to blackmailing, serious threats, bad mouthing, naming names, character assassination is because their teachings have many loopholes that they can’t patch off beginning from Felix Manalo’s self proclamation as their “Last Messenger”, his “Angelic” position, the founding of his church, its ownership, and the hidden wealth of the Manalo clan down to Mr. Conrad J. Obligacion, the hiding Readme and the owner of "Gustong Sukiat" Blog who's completing his studies as future "distorter" of the Truth at the Erano University in the Philippines.

How many times we have quoted conflicting teachings carelessly printed in their official magazine called PASUGO without any honest answer from any of them why those conflicts appearing in their official magazine? Since their silence is deafening, for now those quotes will remain our unyielding and substantial proof against their own teachings. It’s INC™ teaching vs. INC™ teaching.

Say for example this one:

PASUGO November 1940, p. 23“Iisa lamang ang tanging makapagtayo ng Iglesiang magiging dapat sa Dios. Kung sino—ang ating Panginoong Jesu-Cristo lamang! Sino mang tao—maging marunong o mangmang, maging dakila o hamak—ay WALANG KARAPATANG (emphasis mine) magtayo ng Iglesia.” [There’s only one who is authorized to build a Church that’s for God. Who’s he—our Lord Jesus Christ alone! No one—whether wise or fool, rich or poor—has the right to build a Church.”

In the above PASUGO quotation, the INC™ minister was saying “ONLY” our Lord Jesus Christ has the sole authority to build a Church which is for God. And that no other has the right, to build another.

Another quotation from their official magazine is from PASUGO Mayo 1968, p. 7, it says “Ang tunay an INK ay iisa lamang. Ito ang Iglesiang itinayo ni Cristo. Kung mayroon mang nagsisibangon ngayong mga Iglesia at sasabihing sila man ay Iglesia ni Cristo rin, ang mga ito ay hindi tunay an Iglesia ni Cristo kundi huwad lamang.” [The true INK (that’s their former registered name Iglesia ni Kristo) is only one. This is the Church built by Christ. If there are sprouting today Churches claiming to be Christ’s Churches too, these are not genuine rather they are fakes.”

They further confirmed that Christ’s true Church is ONLY ONE, and that every existing churches claiming to be Christ’s too were all fakes.

That’s according to their own standards. Now let’s found if their Iglesia ni Cristo is a genuine one of fake. Let’s use their own official magazine to answer that question:

PASUGO Mayo 1954, p.9“Alin ang tunay na Iglesia? Ang Iglesiang itinayo ni Cristo sa Jerusalem”

So which is the true Church according to their official magazine? It’s the Church founded by Christ himself in Jerusalem.

If that’s the case then this Church should have been thousands of years old, not 95 years only. Let us consult encyclopedia what is this Church that traces itself to the first century when Jesus built his Church in Jerusalem?

“The history of the Catholic Church is traced by the Catholic Church back to apostolic times and thus covers a period of nearly 2,000 years, making it one of the world's oldest institutions. The history of the Catholic Church is an integral part of the history of Christianity and of Western civilization.” (Source: Answers.com)

So when was this “FAKE” Church of Christ built in the Philippines? PASUGO (Agosto-Setyembre 1964, p. 5) will answer it for us:
“Kailan napatala sa Pamahalaan o narehistro ang INK sa Pilipinas? Noong Hulyo 27, 1914. Tunay nga na sinasabi sa rehistro na si Kapatid an F. Manalo ang nagtatag ng INK.” [When was INK recorded or registered in the Philippines? It was in July 27, 1914. Truly, the registry says Brother F. Manalo founded the INK.]

Therefore who owns the Iglesia ni Cristo™ that was founded in the Philippines by no other than Felix Manalo?

PASUGO Mayo 1952, p.4“Kung ang babalingan ng pag-uusap ay ang nagtatag, dapat na siya ang may-ari ng itinatag, at sa kanya rin manggagaling ang mga aral at turo na pinatutupad.” [If the swift of discussion is who founded (a church), he should own what he has founded, and that all teachings implemented should come from himself.]

Therefore, if the Catholic Church has existed for “nearly 2,000 years” ago, then this must be the Church of Christ being mentioned in the official magazine.

Let’s confirm it from their own magazine, PASUGO Abril 1966, p. 46: “Ang Iglesia Katolika an sa pasimula ay siyang Iglesia ni Cristo.” [The Catholic Church which at first was the Church of Christ].

If the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ which Christ has the sole authority to build, and that no man, whether wise or old, rich or poor can build a church that is for God, then what is this Iglesia ni Cristo founded by Felix Manalo in the Philippines in 1914?

Let us consult their official magazine for answers.

PASUGO Nobyembre 1960, p. 26“Kaya’t papaano makikilala ang sugo ng Dios at ang hindi sugo ng Dios: Sa aral makikilala ayon kay Jesus. Ang aral ng mga sugo ng Dios ay mula sa Dios, ang mga aral ng hindi sugo ng Dios, ay mula lamang sa kanyang sarili. (Juan 7:16-18)” [So how are we certain who is God’s real messenger from false messengers: We can know them through their teachings says Jesus. The teachings of God’s messengers are from God, and the teachings from fake messengers of God, are from their own selves.]

In one of PASUGO’S (November 1959, p. 20) publications, it’s written “Walang aral si Kapatid an Felix Manalo na kinatha mula sa kanyang sarili.”[Brother Felix Manalo has no teachings authored by him.]

From this statement, let’s see how they put to shame their own founder:

PASUGO Mayo 1961, p.4“At sino nga ba ang gumagawa ng mga leksiong itinuturo ng mga ministro, maging sa mga pagsamba, mga doktrina o mga Propaganda? Ang Kapatid na Felix Manalo.” [So who formulated all lectures that are taught by the ministers, in worship, doctrines, or Propagandas? It’s Brother Felix Manalo]

And another:

PASUGO Mayo 1963, p. 27
“Kaya’t sa katuparan ng hula, ang lahat ng mga itinuturo ng mga Ministro ng INK sa mga pagsamba, sa mga doktrina, sa mga pamamahayag sa gitna ng bayan, ay si Kapatid na Felix Manalo lamang ang bumabalangkas at nagtuturo sa kanila.” [As a fulfillment of the prophesy, all teachings taught by the Ministers of the INK in worship, doctrines and in proclamation in the middle of towns, it’s our Brother Felix Manalo alone has formulated and taught them.]

What did they say? We can know who’s genuine from fakes by its teachings. Those messengers from God teaches what’s from God and those who teaches teachings from their own selves are FAKES. If Felix Manalo formulated his own teachings, in worship, doctrines and preaching in the INC, then it follows that they were the ones who confirmed Felix Manalo being FAKE MESSENGER.

I therefore conclude, from their own PASUGO comes the confirmation that:
1. Christ founded only one Church which belongs to God.
2. And that no man, whether wise or fool, rich or poor has the authority to build a church.
3. And that every existing churches claiming to be Christ’s Church are fakes.
4. Independent Encyclopedias claim, only the Catholic Church can trace its history back to the times of the apostles for nearly 2,000 years making it one of the oldest institutions in the world.
5. Felix Manalo, a mortal man, founded a church.
6. Felix Manalo, a mortal man, registered his church in July 27, 1914.
7. Felix Manalo, a mortal man named his church “Iglesia ni Cristo” Church of Christ/
8. True messengers of God teaches something from God.
9. False messengers preaches what they themselves formulated.
10. Felix Manalo formulated his own teachings, in worship, doctrines and preaching which INC™ Ministers are teaching.

Now, I am sure why these INC™ members are afraid to answer our honest inquiry because they have shed enough proof that their Iglesia ni Cristo™ is not Christ’s and therefore it’s a FAKE CHURCH!

9 comments:

  1. Dear Catholicdefender2000,

    I'am an INC and I would like to answer your question... "Are We Getting the Right Answer from the Iglesia ni Cristo (1914)?"

    My answer... is that you got it right. The Pasugo that you cited are accurate only until you cut and paste it in a way that like some preachers twist the bible, then you get a Contradiction.

    Now, in order for you to get the right answers from the INC, why don't you post the entire article of the Pasugo where got your samples because every-INC already know that the answers were there.

    I am asking you this for two 2 reasons, 1.) you read the articles but you already closed your heart and even intentionally mislead the people of what really is being explained in the Pasugo articles. 2.) you never really read the articles and you are just re-cycling these coming from other sites/forum which were ages ago which for all I know the INC have already answered.

    I suggest you go back to that Pasugo Article and read it with open mind and open heart, then if you still got questions, post the Pasugo complete article then I will try to answer you if you're afraid to ask our ministers.

    Sincerely,
    L2S.SPSS

    ReplyDelete
  2. Thank you L2S for your honest suggestions.

    Allow me to correct you. Those passages were not taken from Mr. Soriano. Besides I haven't quoted him for any reason that may advance my desire to help others see the truth.

    Thank you for admitting they were really written exactly as they were. Instead of asking me to post the continuation of those quotations, please be free to research for the continuation of those quotations. In that way you can explain further as to why these were written in a way that they would be damaging to the claims of the Iglesia ni Cristo (1914).

    Lastly, in research, there is no such as "recycling". We quote them for accuracy of what we really want to prove to our readers.

    I tried to click your name but that account is not existing. We all wish to know in person whom are we addressing our issies.

    Sincerely,

    Catholic Defender

    ReplyDelete
  3. Dear Catholicdefender2000,

    It seems that you never read even an article of the Pasugo that you are quoting, simply because you have no idea of what the article is about. And who said anything about those passages were taken from Mr. Soriano?

    Since you don't want to burden yourself of searching the articles I'll just give you a sample since an article will not be of use to you.

    8. True messengers of God teaches something from God. (AGREE)
    9. False messengers preaches what they themselves formulated. (AGREE)
    10. Felix Manalo formulated his own teachings, in worship, doctrines and preaching which INC™ Ministers are teaching. (DISAGREE)


    It is true that Bro. Felix Y. Manalo formulated the doctrines, teachings, lectures, propagandas, etc., that are being taught by the ministers inside the INC, but the part that you missed is that they are all came from the Bible, from God and not of his OWN as you suggest (much like the prophets and messenger of God was able to ) that is why I am begging you to post or at least read the article.

    This is the same way as your pope, bishops and fathers created doctrines, teachings, lectures, propagandas, sermons in mass, etc., NOT UNLESS yours are not from the Bible ans was never on the Bible maybe it was just made up from councils just to please some people specially Kings.

    Sincerely,
    L2S.SPSS

    PS. What I meant by recycled is that its already used and have already been answered.

    And do I need to have an account to post a comment? my email should be enough. And the "About Me" would just be the same as yours... Male from the Philippines only I am an INC.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Thanks once again Mr/Ms. L2S for your valuable comments here.

    Let me get it straight.

    It would be VERY MISLEADING on the part of those who are reading this comments to compare the Pope with Felix Manalo when the former never takes any title such that he is the "Last Prophet" or "Last Messenger" as if Christ's own salvific actions on the Cross were futile that we need another "Messenger" after him.

    The Catechism of the Catholic Church reflect that of which were written in the Holy Scripture that Christ's Passion, Death and Ressurection IS the most perfect offering that FORGIVES sins.

    Thank you once again for the interest in knowing the truth.

    The same way, if someone is quoting our official reference, we can always go back to our source and I can show from our Catholic side what were missing and then I can explain further according to what the message really was intended.

    In the part of those PASUGO passages, I am asking you the same, please go back to your own purlication and explain to us what YOUR MINISTERS REALLY WANTED TO TELL US. I am a Catholic (not your member) so the explanation should come from you, not from us.

    If you can explain it fully what those passages from PASUGO meant, then I promise I would take them seriuosly, but please be OFFICIAL, not only opinionated.

    We all need FACTS, please share with us what you know about those quotations and that would make us understand your own doctrines better and clearer.

    I suggest you too to go back to your own articles and read it with open minds and heart, then if you find that I cut only portions of it, then please be free to provide our readers the complete article then I will try to understand it from your own explanations, if what you would be telling us IS OFFICIAL, not something from your own opinion.

    Lastly, please dont put words into my mouth. I am not afraid of your Ministers, they are not monsters to be afraid of, right? Some of your ministers are nice people, decent and respectable but sad to say, some acted beyond the Christian norm of behaving like a REAL MINISTER OF CHRIST.

    We, Catholics admit we have errand priests and we dont tolerate their sinfulness. They too should be punished and they would answer to God alone for their behavior while being priests. However we dont hate the sinner. We hate sin itself. Just as Christ hate sin and loved the sinner, for this is why he came to save us. I am sure you can agree on that.

    Besides, I do not fear men (like your Ministers). I fear only God who can punish both the body and the soul.

    Sincerely,

    Catholic Defender

    ReplyDelete
  5. Dear Catholicdefender2000,

    I really appreciate your answers to my comments, as i see it this will not end as I expected it to be, if my suggestions wont work for you, that's Ok. But why are you asking me to go back to those Pasugo, am I the one who quoted them and commented on them? Don't tell me that you commented on those articles without ever reading the rest of it. No wonder you are lost. So lost that you concluded what is not.

    Lets talk about your conclusion... 10. Felix Manalo formulated his own teachings, in worship, doctrines and preaching which INC™ Ministers are teaching. (DISAGREE)

    Now go back to your Pasugo quotes and tell me which one says that "Felix Manalo formulated HIS OWN teachings" for all I can read Felix Manalo formulated teachings, but never it is mentioned "his own" He formulating the teachings (coming from the Bible) is totally different from He formulating his own teachings, its also different from He formulating alone. Gets? That is the reason why I just have to leave a comment. And how easy it is for you to say how we put to shame our own founder.

    Another thing is that the PASUGO doesn't need my explanation, it will speak for itself. That is why I suggest to read the entire article.

    I know I am sounding too offensive and seem trying to pull you down but in the end I am just concerned as you are concerned in defending your Church.

    Sincerely,
    L2S.SPSS

    P.S. For the rest of your comment, I refuse to answer since its already way off the topic. And to be allowed to post any Pasugo article here would be great except that in respect to your site. I will not. Its inappropriate, but good.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I really appreciate your answers to my comments, as i see it this will not end as I expected it to be, if my suggestions wont work for you, that's Ok. But why are you asking me to go back to those Pasugo, am I the one who quoted them and commented on them? Don't tell me that you commented on those articles without ever reading the rest of it. No wonder you are lost. So lost that you concluded what is not.

    Lets talk about your conclusion... 10. Felix Manalo formulated his own teachings, in worship, doctrines and preaching which INC™ Ministers are teaching. (DISAGREE)

    Now go back to your Pasugo quotes and tell me which one says that "Felix Manalo formulated HIS OWN teachings" for all I can read Felix Manalo formulated teachings, but never it is mentioned "his own" He formulating the teachings (coming from the Bible) is totally different from He formulating his own teachings, its also different from He formulating alone. Gets? That is the reason why I just have to leave a comment. And how easy it is for you to say how we put to shame our own founder.

    Another thing is that the PASUGO doesn't need my explanation, it will speak for itself. That is why I suggest to read the entire article.

    I know I am sounding too offensive and seem trying to pull you down but in the end I am just concerned as you are concerned in defending your Church.

    Sincerely,
    L2S.SPSS

    P.S. For the rest of your comment, I refuse to answer since its already way off the topic. And to be allowed to post any Pasugo article here would be great except that in respect to your site. I will not. Its inappropriate, but good.

    Hello Mr/Ms L2S.SPSS,

    I can sense in you your great love for your church and your desire to defend it. That’s very good of you. However, it doesn’t mean that when someone disagrees with your theological position (in the INC™), they’re entirely against you as a person. Head-level, we can agree to disagree since I belong to the Church Christ founded in Jerusalem (as your Ministers also acknowledge) and that you belong to a “restored” church which was registered by Felix Manalo in the Philippines.

    Two things we can always disagree at this point: The True Church and when was this TRUE CHURCH disappeared. We can quote the Bible if this really has to happen and history. Let’s see.

    However, I think this is not the issue that you’d like to clear up with me.

    But before that, I would like to highlights some few phrases it’s quite noticing. When you said, and I quote “No wonder you are lost. So lost that you concluded what is not,” you have already pre-judged my intention. This means you have concluded in your thoughts that I am already “lost” when in fact I am 100% convinced I’m trekking the right path to Christ.

    When you said: “And how easy it is for you to say how we put to shame OUR OWN FOUNDER (emphasis mine)” you have just admitted that it was FELIX MANALO who actually FOUNDED your CHURCH.

    Now, this will lead me back to your Minister who said the same 46 years ago when he confirmed that it was ACTUALLY Felix Manalo who founded your church in 1914 (PASUGO (Agosto-Setyembre 1964, p. 5). And I commend you for your consistency with that fact alone. I think we agree on that.

    About my PASUGO quotations, I am the one who wants to prove something so the manner of how I should present my disagreement with your claims will solely be my own discretion. I have done my homework and I have proved something using your own OFFICIAL PUBLICATION. However, if you disagree and that you believed I was not close to that truth, then doing the anti-thesis now IS your homework. How could you ever convince me to negate my own assertions? I believe it’s in your burden now to prove my quotations wrong and explain why I could be wrong… and please stick to ISSUES alone.

    Once again, thank you very much for your gentleness. My view of the INC™ now have changes. I hope there would be more and more INC™ members like you.

    God bless you.

    Regards,

    Catholic Defender

    ReplyDelete
  7. Dear Catholicdefender2000,

    Hello again, I totally agree what you mean by when someone disagrees with you they’re not entirely against you as a person.

    It seems that you don't want to answer my last comment regarding Bro. Felix Manalo formulating his own teachings, but that's Ok. At least I can consider it settled for now unless you want to go back.

    Now, if you want to talk about "The True Church and when was this TRUE CHURCH disappeared." That's fine with me, its not that I don't want to clear it up with you, its just that its really not the topic that I respond and comment to. Its about your cut pasugo article comments and conclusions. See I'm sticking to the ISSUE. Another thing is that your proposal is already misleading, THE CHURCH that you are referring did not disappear, for all I know... how about we change the topic to "The True Church and when was this TRUE CHURCH turned away from God." We can use the Bible and History if you prefer, but I suggest not though this.

    Regarding you highlighting my statements. I say you are lost because of your conclusion and not for anything else, again it was on my last post.

    And regarding your emphasis on how I admitted that it was FELIX MANALO who actually FOUNDED our CHURCH and with me citing my agreement with the Pasugo. IT came from you and it WAS YOU who said that and I will surely quote from your blog post... "From this statement, let’s see how they put to shame their own founder:" I was in the impression that you understood what you are saying but it seems that we are not in accord. I know you are implying that it should be the Lord Jesus Christ that should be the founder, He was, that is why it was named after him. It's also in the Pasugo the one that you tried to contradict with another Pasugo... The true church is founded by Jesus Christ. But going back to the Pasugo (Agosto-Setyembre 1964) issue which you seem to miss the point, it is talking about the INC's registration in the Philippine government in 1914 and we don't deny that fact.

    Lastly, your Pasugo quotation is convincing, I might say specially to those who are not able to get picture being describe in those particular Pasugo articles... but you cannot fool an INC simply because we know the TRUTH we know what is in those Pasugo, I am just fortunate that I have the time to comment. My purpose here is tell you that you are mistaken. I apologize if I maybe rude in some point but aside from you there are others who read your post, and they don't have the slightest idea about the Pasugo that you are quoting, some if not all of it are older than me and not circulating anymore. You can expect a well presented answer with your blog post from me if that is what you prefer. I'll let you know when and where so that you can review it.

    Sincerely,
    L2S.SPSS

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hello Ms./Mr. LS2,

    Once again, thank you for spending your precious time replying to my response. I truly admire your courage and your persistence. However I was expecting you to come here with some official proclamation from your Church that might be helpful for our readers to follow your defense.

    I am sorry if there's a failure in my part to answer about "Bro. Felix Manalo formulating his own teachings" that's because I don't have any intention to distort what is already obvious. You see, when I was in college, I was trained to write thesis. During the deliberations, we need to present facts by quoting known and authoritative people. Let's say if I'd be talking about dreams I should be quoting known psychologists like Freud, Jung and I talk about space I would be consulting NASA or PAGASA.

    I learned that getting the opinion of the experts our thesis carries more weight to what you really wanted to conclude.

    Those PASUGO passages were written clearly understood by anyone who can read it. It doesn't need further commentaries, the manner they're written were simple,clear and understandable. Commenting on it would distort the very meaning of what was been said.

    Now, if you disagree on that, you are always welcome to present your ANTITHESIS to it by supplying us a harder evidence AGAINST my claims. In this way, you are proving through FACTS AND REASON that I was wrong.

    About the True Church and when it disappeared, I would like to accept your challenge-- history and the bible. In the Bible we need the exact words that says, CHRIST CHURCH WOULD APOSTATIZE and in history, we need DATES. I hope we can agree on that.

    Lastly, thank you for being honest that those PASUGO passages are convincing to "those who are not able to get picture being describe in those particular Pasugo articles" and it will be more convincing if you could get more of that article and explain us why your minister wrote those lines.

    I will leave that as your homework. For now, I have done my homework and I would be very thankful if you could come back here and explain theologically those passages you are mostly disturbed.

    God bless you and I pray you are always safe with His (God-Jesus) protection.

    Sincerely,

    Catholic Defender

    ReplyDelete
  9. INC used the bible for their teachings but were interpreted by Manalo.

    INC is not a Christian group because Jesus is not God to them and they don't believe in the Holy Spirit.

    INC is a copy from Jehova's Witness
    becuase they have a very similar beliefs.

    INC is better called INM or Iglesia ni Manalo.

    My bestfriend is an INC and we compared our beliefs. She told me that Jesus is not God but a mere creation of God and a teacher/prophet. As Catholic, I believe that Jesus is God himself who came down from heaven. Yes, the INC is using the bible based on their own wrong interpretations. They also pick and choose what to believe. INC is not even listed as a church. Here is the official record of churches and how they were founded.

    How Old Is Your Church?
    If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

    If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

    If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

    If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

    If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

    If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

    If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

    If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.

    If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.

    If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

    If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

    If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

    ReplyDelete

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