"The Christianity of history is not Protestantism. If ever there were a safe truth it is this, and Protestantism has ever felt it so; to be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant." (-John Henry Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine).

"Where the bishop is, there let the people gather; just as where ever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church". -St. Ignatius of Antioch (ca 110 AD)a martyr later thrown to the lions, wrote to a church in Asia Minor. Antioch was also where the term "Christian" was first used.

“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.” 1 Timothy 3:15

"This is the sole Church of Christ, which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic." -CCC 811
Showing posts with label Debate. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Debate. Show all posts

Friday, November 24, 2017

Engr. Rafael Riorito O. Estorque's Article on Panoncillo (INC™) vs Cartujano (Catholic) Debate

7 VERSUS 1 – 1 IS THE WINNER? 
By Engr. Rafael Riorito O. Estorque

If we watch the debate, Mr. Cartujano admitted he was not able to provide a magazine xerox or answer the question of Mr. Panoncillo about the pasugo issue. Mr. Panoncilo was referring to page 11 of the book, Answering Iglesia ni Cristo. What about the SEVEN QUESTIONS asked by Mr. Cartujano? Can Mr. Panoncillo admit that he was not able to answer these since he gave irrelevant answers? INC members will surely say their minister gave correct answers. Yet, if we analyze the questions, was Mr. Panoncillo able to answer them?

1. Did Mr. Panoncillo provide a 3rd century manuscript with the words “MONOGENES HUIOS”? Mr. Cartujano showed a 3rd century manuscript with the words, "MONOGENES THEOS" through the projector during his first cross examination. Did Mr. Panoncillo show any 3rd century manuscript with the words “MONOGENES HUIOS”? NONE. What did Mr. Panoncillo do? He read the Jerusalem Bible (English translation) and his only answer was,"HINDI KUMO LUMA ANG MANUSCRIPTS AY YUN NA TAMA". Mr. Panoncillo did not show any book during the debate which stated the statement of textual scholars that support, “HINDI KUMO LUMA ANG MANUSCRIPTS AY YUN NA TAMA,” particularly John 1:18.

Thursday, April 27, 2017

A Quick Refutation of an Internet Lie (perpetuated by members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo about Joe Ventilacion vs Dr. J. White debate).

A Quick Refutation of an Internet Lie

I was sent the attached graphic earlier today as I was going to preach on Philippians 2:5-11 at a local Southern Baptist Church here in Rapid City before returning home tomorrow to Phoenix. Here is the English translation that was provided to me:

"The proof that INC won the debate:

After the heated debate between Dr. James White and Joe Ventilacion of INC, Dr James White has made up his mind to study more on teachings and faith of the Iglesia ni Cristo. This is due to the fact that he has by himself witnessed that all the teachings of INC is plainly stated in the Bible.

No wonder that even if the debate was already over, James White, out of his curiosity, continues to ask questions to Joe Ventilacion, because it was his first time to hear these teachings from INC. Most importantly, Dr. White has concluded that there is no Trinity in the Bible and that there is only one God, the Father, which has to be known and worshipped by men."

The picture was taken by an INC member we had chatted with while waiting for Mr. Ventilacion to arrive for the 5pm Q&A session (which was very lightly attended). As I had other things to get to I went straight to JV and asked my question. If we need to, I can provide a full transcript and recording of the conversation. Here is what we discussed:

When I do debates, I attempt to accurately represent the other side by studying their primary source documents. Hence, when I debate Mormons, I have a very large LDS library from which to quote. Same with Jehovah's Witnesses. When I debate Islam, I quote from their primary source documents as well. And when someone wants to represent me fairly, they surely can do so, as my books are available for anyone to read, and the confessions of faith used by my church are public and readily available.

During our debate, JV said I was misrepresenting INC. But he also invited me to do a second debate (we discussed doing this in San Diego next year during this conversation). So I raised one main issue to him. There is a book I would like to obtain. It is titled _Fundamental Beliefs of the Iglesia Ni Christo_ by Eranio G. Manalo. It is their primary ministerial text. And it is secret. They do not allow public distribution of it. And so I was asking for a copy, as that would be the only way to accurately represent INC's positions in a debate. I was told it was only for ministers, and that I would be provided with articles from magazines, but not with the official publication that defines their beliefs. I pointed out that this secretive stance is not only problematic for people who claim to be Christians, but it makes it next to impossible to fairly debate INC. But I was not given the book.

JV and I exchanged numbers and email addresses so we can have contact regarding the possibility of a debate in San Diego (where he is moving). I wrote to JV earlier today to ask him to comment on this falsehood being spread through the Internet, but I have not received a response from him.

Now, the fact is, whoever posted this lie is engaging in CLASSIC cultic behavior. Such a person shows not the slightest concern for truth and is willing to fabricate falsehoods for the service of a false religious system. This is the very essence of the cultic mind.

Once again, everything in the article is an utter fabrication, a lie, *and we possess full documentation of every word spoken in the exchange by which we can prove this.* Only a person who feels a very strong need to do damage control would produce such a dishonest post. And that says a great deal.

By the way, anyone with any information on how we might obtain a copy of the above mentioned book, please contact Alpha and Omega Ministries with that information. We are surely willing to pay for any copy of this work. Thank you!


Tuesday, July 15, 2014

Formal Debate: Catholic Apologists vs Iglesia ni Cristo Deceivers


Thanks to Fr. Abe Arganiosa for providing this video

Ventilacion: [1:16:51] Mr. Alvin, kanina binanggit mo ang pangalang... 'Iglesia ni Cristo', yun bang nasa Roma 16:16 ay ang Iglesiang itinayo ni Cristo?... you mentioned kanina the church established by Christ. Medyo interesado ako. Yun bang iglesiang itinatag ni Cristo, yun ba yung nasa Romans 16:16?

CD2000: Ang "mga iglesia ni Cristo" na binabanggit sa Roma 16:16 ay patungkol sa mga iglesiang kay Cristo at HINDI TATAG ng taong katulad ni Felix Manalo. Huwag ka nang mangarap.  

Sulat ito ni Apostol San Pablo sa mga KRISTIANO SA ROMA.  "Ang lahat ng mga iglesia ni Cristo ay bumabati sa INYO". 

Hindi porke't nabanggit lang ang mga salitang "iglesia ni Cristo" ay kayo na!

Himay-himayin natin ang Roma 16:16 [may naisulat na rin akong artikulo tungkol dito].  Sulat po ito ni Apostol Pablo sa mga TAGA-ROMA at hindi Pinas!  

Ang sabi ni Apostol Pablo ay "BINABATI" nga raw ng LAHAT ng mga iglesia ni Cristo ang IGLESIA SA ROMA!  

Malinaw po yan!  IGLESIA po sa ROMA ang BINABATI ng LAHAT ng mga iglesia ni Cristo!

Ang mga katagang ito ni Apostol San Pablo ay HINDI natupad sa INC ni Manalo. Ito'y NATUPAD sa IGLESIA sa ROMA!

Tingnan niyo ang mapa sa ibaba!


Source: Wikipedia
Yung Green (Luntian) ay mga bansang may Diplomatic Ties o kaya'y may Apostolic Delegates sa IGLESIA sa ROMA. Taon-taon ay nagpapadala sila ng PAGBATI sa IGLESIA sa ROMA.  

BINABATI nga naman ng mga iglesia ni Cristo ang IGLESIA SA ROMA. Eh bakit ang "Iglesia ni Cristo-1914" ay HINDI BUMABATI sa IGLESIA sa ROMA? 

Dahil diyan, lalong LUMILITAW na HINDI SILA ang binabanggit sa Roma 16:16 kundi TAYONG mga KATOLIKO yon!

Yung mga kulay Gray (Abo) naman ay ang mga bansang WALA pang  foreign delegation o sadyang mapanganib sa mga Kritsiano. Ang PAG-UUSIG sa mga kaanib ng IGLESIA sa ROMA ay hindi matawaran sa tindi.  Ito ay ang mga bansang:
Bagamat ang mga bansang ito ay walang diplomatic ties o formal o informal Apostolic Delegates mula sa Iglesia sa Roma ngunit may mga kaanib ng Iglesia Katolika sa mga bansang nabangit.  

Ngayon Ginoong Ventilacion, alin nga ba ang IGLESIANG BINABANGGIT sa ROMA 16:16? Iglesia sa Roma ba o Iglesia sa Pinas? At alin nga ba ang IGLESIA NI CRISTO na binabanggit ni Apostol San Pablo noong Unang Siglo, ang Iglesia noong 33 AD or ang INC 1914?

PASUGO, Abril 1966, p. 46:
“Ang totoo hanggang sa kasalukuyan ay patuloy na ginagawa ni Satanas ang pagpapasok ng mga maling aral sa Iglesia Katolika na sa pasimula'y siyang Iglesia ni Cristo. Sadyang matalino at tuso ang diablo. Hindi niya ginawang biglaan ang pagtalikod sa Iglesiang itinayo ni Cristo noong unang siglo."
PASUGO July August 1988 pp. 6. 
“Even secular history shows a direct time link between the Catholic Church and the Apostles, leading to the conclusion that the true Church of Christ is the Catholic Church.”

Ventilacion: [1:55:09] Yung nasa Bagong Tipan hindi ko pwedeng tutulan yan. Pero sa Batong Tipan, ipakita mo rin na naordinahan si John the Baptist!

CD2000: Mr. Ventilacion, kung gagamitin pala natin ang pamantayan mo sa pagpapatunay na HINDI na kailangan ng ordinasyon kay Felix Manalo (bilang sugo) katulad ng pagkasugo kay Juan Bautista na hindi na nangailangan ng ordinasyon, ang tanong magkapantay ba ang tungkulin ni Juan Baustista kay Felix Manalo?  Si Juan Bautista ay kinasihan ng Dios at hinulaan ang pagdating at nasusulat ang kanyang pagkasugo maging ang kanyang pangalan-- nasusulat ba ang pagkasugo ni Felix Manalo, maging ang kanyang pangalan sa Banal na Biblia upang PANTAY ang paghahambing natin sa pagkasugo ni Juan Baustista kay Felix Manalo?

And we can't brush aside their despicable "manners" and the gross dishonesty on the side of these top-INC apologists deceiving many during this formal debate!


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