"The Christianity of history is not Protestantism. If ever there were a safe truth it is this, and Protestantism has ever felt it so; to be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant." (-John Henry Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine).

"Where the bishop is, there let the people gather; just as where ever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church". -St. Ignatius of Antioch (ca 110 AD)a martyr later thrown to the lions, wrote to a church in Asia Minor. Antioch was also where the term "Christian" was first used.

“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.” 1 Timothy 3:15

"This is the sole Church of Christ, which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic." -CCC 811

Tuesday, June 11, 2013

"...historically, the Roman Catholic Church cannot trace its origin back in the first century” because i do not recognize the RCC to be the Church of Christ" - ReadMe Iglesia ni Cristo Member

ReadMe is a bonafide member of the church founded by Felix Manalo in 1914. It's name is purely in Tagalog as it was a REGISTERED PATENTED TRADEMARK, a sole corporation owned and managed by the MANALO CLAN. ReadMe's response is typically an "Iglesia" that is almost evident in most of its members joining in forums. It's PAID MINISTERS authority is hanging while their credibility as "bible experts" cannot even recognized since NONE of its paid ministers are considered as such. Let's be patient with ReadMe and other members and pray for them that they may finally find light in the TRUE CHURCH OF CHRIST-- the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH! -CD2000

This article was taken from The Splendor of the Church blog of Father Abe, my good friend.

ReadMe: Im just wondering why Catholic defenders CANT understand my point. frequently happens, like in the case of Catholicdefender2000. Was it my problem or there is a problem on how they understand things? Well never mind.

Sagot: I’m just wondering too why people like you are buying the idea that the church apostatized when, in fact, it is not supported in scripture. Anyways, don’t mind it because your problem is yours alone.

ReadMe: What im saying about “Historically, the Catholic Church cannot trace its origin back to the 1st century.” i mean here that the Roman Catholic Church is not the church founded by Christ.
It was not the CHURCH that was established by Christ in the 1st century so it cannot trace its origin back to the 1st century.

Sagot: Look how poor your argumentation is. First, you used the word “historically” but you never give us any reference what title of history book(s) you are using. So, what you said can be considered a malicious rumor or an imaginary story brought about by your malicious mind. The bible said “Present your case, says Yahweh. Produce your evidence, says the King of Jacob” (Isa 41:21). Your case therefore is very weak considering that you have not given any evidence at all. Second, you have committed a fallacy of non-sequitur because your conclusion does not follow from your premise(s). Out of a very weak premise, “the Roman Catholic Church is not the church founded by Christ”, you made this conclusion that the Church (Catholic) cannot trace its origin back to the first century. This argument is absurd and futile because it doesn’t prove anything except your ignorance of logical reasoning. I’m sorry but you failed to prove what you are trying to prove here.

ReadMe: I really hope you have even just a little background on our faith about Christ’s church, its apostasy etc… If not, i can tell it to you. We believe that the Church founded by Christ in the 1st century was and was called Church of Christ/Iglesia ni Cristo. This church had fallen to apostasy sometime after the death of the apostles because of changes happened in its doctrines/beliefs/etc caused by the new bishops/etc. that administered the church. Church of Christ’s doctrines/belief/practices is different from that of the Roman Catholic Church. The Church of Christ in the 1st century became and is now called One Holy Catholic Apostolic roman church.

Sagot: Well, you really sound a “desperate Manalista”. Storytelling would be good for children before bed but for us you may have to try harder. The apostasy that you mentioned cannot be traced from the bible. Remember that in his pursuit to make the church perish or disappear by persecution, Saul failed. Why? Because Jesus did not allow him to succeed. He said to Saul “I am Jesus whom you persecute” (Acts 9:5). In this particular incident, the Lord himself is trying to say that He will not allow the church to be vanished. The church is the body of Christ (Col 1:18). You cannot separate the body from the head who is Jesus himself. If the body is persecuted, the head is affected. If the body (church) apostatized as you claim it is then Jesus, being the head, would have been neglecting his own body. Are you trying to say that when the body (church) is persecuted, Jesus is there to protect it but when there was a threat of the body (church) to become apostate, Jesus leave them? How cruel is your Lord? However as Catholics, we believed that our Lord will always defend his body, the church, at anytime not only from persecution but from total apostasy. The “gate of hades” is a representation of “death” or its power. Death would have no power over Jesus and His Body. It therefore denies your claim that the death of the apostles overcomes the church founded by Christ. It is totally wrong and ungodly.

ReadMe: I did not say that the Roman Catholic Church is the Church of Christ. I said, IN THE BEGINNING, or at first, it WAS the Church of Christ.

Sagot: Your denial means nothing. The Roman Catholic Church was and still is the Church of Christ.

ReadMe: I said “historically, the Roman Catholic Church cannot trace its origin back in the first century” because i do not recognize the RCC to be the Church of Christ

Sagot: Stop using fictional history as your proof. Again, your reasoning is weak. It surely will not stand if it is tested. Do you mean that your recognition becomes the very basis of the veracity or falsehood of any statements? Whoa, it’s like saying it is true because I said so… who are you?

ReadMe: or to be the same and identical with the Church of Christ in the 1st century. So the RCC can trace its origin in the time it had fallen to apostasy which is sometime after the death of the apostles = after 1st century A.D

Sagot: This is a gross misinterpretation of the Bible… Apostasy never happens. Well, you said we cannot trace our history back to the first century. Bishop Ignatius of Antioch, a disciple of John the Apostle, was converted to Christianity at a very young age.

He succeeded Evodius as bishop of Antioch at around 69 AD making him part of the first century Christian Bishops. At around 110AD, he made a letter to the smyrnaeans before his martyrdom in Rome. In this epistle he said, “Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (Epistle to the Smyrnæans). So what you said that the Catholic Church cannot trace its history back to the first century is actually false.

ReadMe: But i believe after i explained it, you and others still CANT understand me. Yun talaga ang pinakaipinagtataka ko kung bakit hindi niyo ko kayang maintindihan.

Sagot: Naiintindihan namin na mali ang mga tinuturo mo. Kaya nga hindi kami nagtataka sa iyo e.

ReadMe: Thanks for mentioning Matthew 16:18 that says:

At sinasabi ko sa iyo, ikaw ay Pedro, at sa ibabaw ng batong ito ay itatayo ko ang aking iglesya at ang pintuan ng daigdig ng mga patay ay hindi magtatagumpay laban sa kanya.

Wala akong mabasang sinabing “ang iglesia ay hindi matatalikod”, ang sabi kasi ang PINTUAN NG
DAIGDIG ng mga PATAY ay hindi MAGTATAGUMPAY laban sa kaniya. hindi kaya ang ibig sabihin ng APOSTASY sayo ay PINTUAN NG MGA PATAY?

Sagot: Kung ang pintuan nga ng mga patay ay hindi nga magtatagumpay laban sa simbahan. E bakit ang “kamatayan” ng mga apostoles ang tinuturo niyong simula ng pagpasok ng Apostasy? Ang apostasy ay matatawag ding kamatayan dahil tumutukoy ito sa kamatayan ng paniniwala. So ang Apostasy ay hindi rin magtatagumpay laban sa simbahan.

ReadMe: I really hope that your church is CONSISTENT, especially on its doctrines. I hope the many problems in your church will be resolved. I hope your church will have UNITY. I hope you can know the Truth like what ex-catholics turn INC members have known.

Sagot: It’s actually your church which is not consistent in its doctrines. What can we expect from a man-made Church? By the way, your denial that your church is founded by Manalo would not make it untrue. The fact remains that in all the documents in SEC, he claims to be the founder of his church. I also hope the same thing with you.

Read similar article from The Splendor of the Church blog)

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