"The Christianity of history is not Protestantism. If ever there were a safe truth it is this, and Protestantism has ever felt it so; to be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant." (-John Henry Newman, An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine).

"Where the bishop is, there let the people gather; just as where ever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church". -St. Ignatius of Antioch (ca 110 AD)a martyr later thrown to the lions, wrote to a church in Asia Minor. Antioch was also where the term "Christian" was first used.

“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.” 1 Timothy 3:15

"This is the sole Church of Christ, which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic." -CCC 811

Monday, September 7, 2009

KARL KEATING vs. JOSE VENTILACION DEBATE

What really happened during the debate between Karl Keating, a Catholic apologist and Jose Ventilacion (he has no site), an INC apologist. The below article was taken from Catholic Answers particularly on this article Into the Maw of the Cult by Karl Keating:
We drove up to the campus. There was a small parking lot between us and the gymnasium, where the debate would be held. "Looks like we have competition from a football game," I said to Charlie.

Yellow buses were pulling into the lot, spilling passengers into a large crowd of people milling around on the grass. We turned in behind a bus, and I hit the brakes. Now we were close enough to see the unsmiling faces. Charlie began to whisper an Act of Contrition.

Everyone was dressed in Sunday-go-to-meetin' clothes. "I don't think they're here for football," said Charlie, his spiritual repair-work done.

"And I don't think we're in Kansas anymore, Toto," I said. "What's going on? The debate isn't for two and a half hours. Where have all these people come from?"

They were coming from all over Southern California, expecting to see their hero, a minister for Iglesia ni Cristo ("Church of Christ" in Tagalog), rhetorically smash a Catholic apologist. I was to be the smashee.

We parked the van and walked to the gymnasium. Iglesia men in three-piece suits were speaking into walkie-talkies. Several women were setting up a reception table outside the foyer. Others were checking off names on long lists. At the side door trucks filled with folding chairs were being unloaded. Farther back, people were taking video equipment out of a van. And behind us more yellow buses were pulling into the lot, disgorging passengers, and moving on.

We walked inside, stepped over cables, dodged men carrying chairs. Against the wall opposite the foyer was the raised platform: lecterns, tables, microphones, and, off to the left, an overhead projector and large screen. Video cameras were being set up in a semicircle in front of the platform. Technicians hovered around them, armed with bandoliers of battery packs.

The bleachers had been extended on both sides of the gymnasium. The floor was being filled rapidly with folding chairs, some of which already had been claimed. Several dozen impeccably dressed Iglesia members wore badges identifying themselves as ushers. They greeted people at the doors and took them to seats that seemed to be assigned.

The mood of the audience was distressingly expectant, perhaps not unlike the mood of audiences at a Roman arena. These people were looking for blood--mine.

After we set up a book table (we ended up selling almost nothing since Iglesia people are discouraged from reading anything but their own church's literature), I started to look for my opponent, Jose Ventilacion, the minister from the National City Church of Christ.

His church is visible from the freeway and gets plenty of stares--and with good reason. Iglesia churches are reminiscent of Mormon temples. They feature many pinnacled towers (none with a trumpet-blowing angel Moroni on top). Some people say the architecture reminds them of the Emerald City in the Wizard of Oz. In the Philippines it is said the Iglesia churches are built not so much with an eye to aesthetics, but with an eye to necessity.

At the rapture, or so the story goes, Iglesia members will be whooshed into heaven, but only if they're inside one of their churches when the rapture comes. The church building too will be taken up. Thus the need for the aerodynamic design. The story may be apocryphal, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. These people believe strange things, and they believe them sincerely--more than sincerely, fanatically. Their fanaticism is not to be taken lightly.

When I sat down at my place on the platform, an Iglesia man took a chair a few feet away, near the stairs. "What are you doing?" I asked.

"I'm your bodyguard," he said. "At our debates in the Philippines, people often charge the platform, and I'm here to protect you in case that happens."

I was not comforted. What good would one bodyguard be against 3,500 people trained to hate Catholicism?

Before I go on I should give a little background about this strange sect. Its founder was Felix Manalo. Baptized a Catholic, he fell away from the Church as a teenager. Later he was influenced by Protestant missionaries who had come to the Philippines. He also must have been influenced by Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, since his church's distinctive doctrines seem taken from those religions.

In 1914 Manalo incorporated Iglesia ni Cristo in the Philippines. Within a few years he was teaching that the Christian Church had apostatized in the first century and had ceased to exist. Eighteen and a half centuries later, God instructed Manalo to effect a restoration. (Sounds like Joseph Smith, eh?) Today's head of Iglesia ni Cristo is Manalo's son, Erano.

The church publishes a monthly magazine called God's Message, the most notable feature of which is its strident and low-brow anti-Catholicism. It is also anti-Protestant. The Catholic and Protestant churches, but especially the former, are tools of Satan, say the writers. Each issue has many more pages devoted to debunking Christian churches than to explaining Iglesia's own positions. In a way that's understandable: Iglesia ni Cristo has few positions to explain. Keep in mind that this is a sect built not so much on a set of doctrines, but on a set of anti-doctrines. The members are told what to shun; there isn't much for them to accept in the positive sense.

Unlike Fundamentalism, unlike even Mormonism and the Jehovah's Witnesses, Iglesia ni Cristo is a true cult. If you had seen the Iglesia people in the audience, if you had seen how they reacted in lock-step to their leaders, you could imagine how they might all take up in unison cups filled with adulterated Kool-Aid. At least that's the impression I got, from my vantage point on the platform.

The gymnasium was preternaturally hot. An hour before the start of the debate the people seated on the folding chairs were fanning themselves. At the top of the bleachers it was hotter still. And on the platform, under the klieg lights, it was hellish. (I went through a quart of water before the night was over.) I wondered if someone had turned on the heaters in the afternoon, in order to get the audience on edge. I wouldn't doubt it: The Iglesia folks are sneaky.

Jose Ventilacion and I had negotiated terms of the debate over a period of several months. Each time a change was made in the format, he had to check with the authorities in Manila. I had been warned by people who had seen Iglesia debates not to trust Ventilacion. I pooh-poohed the warnings, but I was wrong. The terms of the debate were broken even before Charlie and I arrived at the gymnasium.

Ventilacion and I had agreed this would be mano-a-mano, just the two of us. I was seated alone at my table, but he had three helpers at his. Their job was to pass him notes and books to read from while he was at the lectern. Sometimes they did more than that. Andy Suarez, himself a minister, was unable to control himself during my remarks. He repeatedly stood up and shouted at me.

"I'm not debating you," I shouted back. "I'm debating him. Sit down!"

The overhead projector also wasn't part of the agreement. It was placed on Ventilacion's side of the platform, with two more of his people manning it. When I first saw it and realized that Suarez and others would be acting as seconds, I complained to Ventilacion. He flashed a toothy smile. "If you don't agree to this format, we'll cancel the debate and we'll give our people an instruction." By that he meant he'd just preach to them.

I didn't have much choice. The listeners were mainly former Catholics bamboozled by Iglesia ni Cristo's anti-Catholic rhetoric. They needed to hear what the Catholic Church really stood for--and what their church really stood for and how it came to be.

Besides, six against one looked good: The odds were in my favor. I was bound to get a certain amount of sympathy, especially if I explained the situation--which I did. But Ventilacion, in the question period following my opening remarks, said I misrepresented the facts, that I had "agreed" to the format.

"When a man has a gun at his head and 'agrees' to hand over his money," I replied, "that's not a real agreement." Ventilacion said I shouldn't worry about technicalities, but it was clear his people had spent lots of time worrying about technicalities. You don't produce a well-orchestrated (well-railroaded?) debate by ignoring the little things.

But however meticulous it may be organizationally, Iglesia ni Cristo is remarkably cavalier when it comes to "the little things" of theology. Its positions are just stated, never really substantiated. Its arguments are puerile.

For instance, believers in the claims of Felix Manalo say Revelation's references to an "angel" coming out of the "East" or from "afar" refer to a "messenger" ("angel" is taken from the Greek for "messenger") coming from the "Far East." And what is the geographic center of the Far East? Why, the Philippines, of course. Therefore, Felix Manalo was a true prophet: (1) He claimed to be a prophet, which means (2) that he claimed to be God's messenger, and (3) he came from the Far East.

How to respond to such a claim? I started by listing the countries that make up the Far East: China, Korea, Japan, Taiwan, the Indochinese countries, and, yes, the Philippines. "If you look at a map of the Far East," I said, "you'll see that the Philippines is in the lower right-hand corner. The geographic center is in southern China, not in the Philippines." There were laughs from the Catholics and Protestants (a few hundred of them were in the audience), nervous fidgeting from the Iglesia people.

Later on, after having dealt with the main charges against the Catholic Church, I zeroed in on Manalo himself. Iglesia ni Cristo tells its members little about their founder: What I said brought a strange silence to the gymnasium. I explained Manalo's early years and how, as it is now said, he began his church in 1914 after receiving a revelation from God and being informed that he was the new prophet.

"Why, five years later, in 1919, did Manalo come to the U.S. to study with Protestants? Why would he study with 'apostates'? Why would a prophet need to study religion at all, after having talked with God?"

Then I gave the answer: "Because Felix Manalo didn't start off claiming to be a prophet. Originally Iglesia ni Cristo was just another Protestant sect, one that borrowed heavily from the American Cambellites. It wasn't until 1920, when there was a schism within Iglesia ni Cristo, that Manalo started to say he was a prophet. He said that because he wanted the members of his fledgling church to take his side, not the schismatics' side.

"Manalo never was a prophet, just a slick con man. Even today the leaders of your church deceive you. They not only lie about the Catholic and Protestant churches, they lie about the origins of your own church. They don't want you to know the truth."

Iglesia Ni Cristo’s anti-Catholicism is not very inventive--that, or the attention span of Iglesia people is remarkably short. God's Message brings up the same charges again and again, yet there's no indication that devoted readers tire of hearing the same thing, even in the same words. Two, three, even four times a year there will be feature stories decrying the same Catholic belief or practice. I don't mean stories that mention a topic briefly and then move on. I mean stories that are almost word-for-word identical.

One of the favorite topics is the identity of the beast of Revelation, the symbolic number of which is 666. Most reputable scholars, Catholic and Protestant, say the number refers to the Roman Emperor Nero. Not all agree, but no such scholars say the beast is the papacy. But that's exactly what Iglesia ni Cristo says.

In itself that's not surprising. After all, countless Fundamentalists say the same thing. But Iglesia ni Cristo, in God's Message, says it in a most peculiar way: It makes a bold argument which any attentive reader can disprove simply by glancing at God's Message itself.

The argument goes like this: "The number 666 is the sum of the letters of the beast's title. The Pope's title is Vicarius Filii Dei (Vicar of the Son of God). [Actually, it's not. His title is Vicarius Christi (Vicar of Christ).] We know this is the papal title because it appears prominently on the tiara of the popes; the letters are formed out of hundreds of jewels.Vicarius Filii Dei tallies to 666, which means the papacy is the beast." End of proof.

The editors of God's Message must think the magazine's readers are dolts. They print as part of the article a line drawing of the tiara with the words Vicarius Filii Dei lettered in, just so you know where they appear. Then--and this shows real chutzpah--they print a photograph of Pope Paul VI, the last pope to wear the tiara. Of course, in the photograph there's no hint of any lettering on the tiara. The photograph contradicts both the text and the line drawing, but no one seemed aware of that until I pointed it out during the debate.

Ventilacion did the only proper thing. He ignored my point and changed the subject. He had a wonderful way of doing this. My favorite example concerns the translation of scriptural passages which supposedly included the name of his sect. This is a major issue with Iglesia members. They believe the Bible mentions their church by name. They desperately want to find the phrase "Church of Christ" in the sacred text.

Their argument is facile: "What is the name of Christ’s church, as given in the Bible? It is the 'Church of Christ.' Our church is called the 'Church of Christ.' Therefore, ours is the church Christ founded."

Not many people will be impressed with such an argument--when it was first presented to me during a question and answer period some years ago, I had trouble not laughing aloud--but the folks at the debate thought it made a lot of sense. The problem was that the verse Ventilacion was citing didn't contain the phrase "Church of Christ." I read to him the Greek and said, "It means 'Church of God,' not 'Church of Christ.'"

"That’s your opinion," he said.

"No, it’s not. That's what the Greek says."

"That’s your opinion."

"If you want to know what a verse really means, you need to look at the Greek, because the text of the New Testament is in Greek."

"That’s your opinion," he repeated, smiling broadly.

"No, it’s not my opinion. It’s a fact."

"That’s your opinion."

Of all the debates I've been in, this was at once the most frightening and the most frustrating. It was the most frightening because Iglesia ni Cristo is a true cult, not a mere sect, and it was easy to see why bodyguards were de rigueur, even if their muscle wasn't needed this night. And the debate was the most frustrating because my opponent wouldn't adhere to elementary norms of civility and because the audience, at least the Iglesia portion of it, seemed impervious to even the simplest argument against its position.

Iglesia ni Cristo is a menace. Today it's a menace mainly to Filipino families, but many of the ushers, I noticed, were not Filipino. Non-Filipino members were being "showcased" as ushers, proof that Iglesia no longer confines itself to one ethnic group.

This is an organization that is adapting itself to the American idiom. The American edition of God's Message used to be printed in a dual-language format: half Tagalog, half English. Now all the text is in English, the better to appeal to Americans of various backgrounds.

Iglesia ni Cristo makes Fundamentalists, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses look like slackers when it comes to commitment and anti-Catholicism. We can expect this cult to grow rapidly--mainly at the expense of our Church. And it will, unless we take a stand.

["Which is the True Church?" is a three-hour VHS video recording of this debate. The two-tape set is available from This Rock for $65.00, which includes shipping and handling. Address orders to This Rock, P.O. Box 17181, San Diego, California 92117.]

95 comments:

  1. I am now 53 years old and a Filipino but I am not only Catholic defender, I am also a concern Christian who sees the INC as a threat because of their expanding membership and influence to the sovereignty of the people to vote for leadership in the government. They are also lobbyist for government position and contracts. If they are growing, soon they will become a force to the will of the people in the Philippines. Soon, when they become too many here in the U.S. their leader will command candidates for their support.

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. Mali ang pagkaunawa ng KATAWAN sa inyong INC™. Para sa inyo ay dapat ang katawan ay PAREPAREHONG mata, kamay, paa... gusto niyo PAREPAREHO ang inyong ginagawa, walang naiiba.

      Ang tunay na Iglesia ay siyang may iba't ibang KULTURA, TRADISYON, LAHI, WIKA, uri ng PAGPUPURI ngunit may IISANG BANAL NA HAPUNAN, IISANG LEADER na pinapakinggan ng buong mundo maging Katoliko man o hindi, o kahit hindi Kristiano. Ang Iglesia ay nagsasalita ng iba't ibang wika, ngunit iisa ang pinupuri at sinasamba.. DIOS Ama, Anak at Espiritu Santo.

      Hindi sila sumasamba sa taong Panginoon kundi PANGINOONG DIOS lamang, iyan ang Ama, Anak at Espiritu Santo.

      Ang inyong kaisahan sa pagboto ay isang PANLILINLANG sapagkat ayon sa registered members of INC halos mahigit kumulang na 2.5 million lamang ang inyong bilang?!!!

      Kasinungalingan ang sinasabi niyiong 10 million daw kayo!

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    3. Bro hindi ako member ng INC pero sa lahat ng doctrines na napakinggan ko sa Protestante at Katolika ang INC lamang ang convincing na paliwanag at interpretasyon di tulad ng ibang relihiyon malabo ang paliwanang at hindi nila kayang tindigan at parang misteryo ang doctina na mismong mga Mangagaral nila ay di naiintindihan ang mga inaaral

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    4. Patawa ka brother,pag naglalakad ka ba un isang paa mo pasulong at ang isa ay paatras?

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    5. Who cares kung member ka ng INCorporated Church of Manalo or not. The mere fact that you're defending their doctrine makes u one with them. Huwag ka nang unyango ok.

      Ako, aaminin ko PINOY ako pero sa 115 years ng KASAYSAYAN ng PILIPINAS ay halos wala pa sa 1/100 ang alam ko sa buong kasaysayan. Ang mga pangalan at pangyayari sa bawat sulok ng bansa ay ang hirap ng tandaan, lalo na ang mga kaganapan.

      115 years lang yan...

      How much more more than 2,000 year history of the Catholic Church?!!! Kaya isang malaking kayabangan kung sasabihin mo dito na "convincing" ang paliwanag at interpretasyon ng mga INC eh halos wala pa silang 100 years?

      At tsaka tandaan mo, hndi hanggang INTERPRETASYON lang ang alam ng mga Ministro sapagkag HINDI naman sa kanila ang Biblia. Galing sa aming mga Katoliko ang Biblia. Kaya KAMI, IPINAPALIWANAG namin ito.

      Kita mo pagkakaiba? Kayo INTERPRETASYON lamang. Kami IPINAPALIWANAG namin.

      Parang novel yan. TAga-basa lang kayo kaya maaaring i-interpret ninyo ang kapakahulugan ng sinabi sa novel. Pero ang MAY AKDA ng novel, siya LAMANG ang may kakayahang IPALIWANAG ito sapagkat sa kanya ang nobela.

      Sana maliwanagan ka.

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    6. Kapatid hindi galing sa inyo ang Biblia.Ang Biblia ay Salita ng Diyos at Katotohanan na galing sa Diyos na lumalabas sa Bibig ng Panginoong Jesu Cristo.Ang mga orihinal na aklat ay pinakopya lamang ninyo at isinalin sa ibat-ibang wika pero ang pinagtataka ko bakit di ninyo nauunawaan ang mga Katotohanan? Isa pa walang katoliko noong araw ni Cristo, ang Iglesia ni Cristo ang itinayo ni Cristo ang meron.Magbasa ka ng mga refence book ninyo para malaman mo kung kelan nagkaroon ng official name ang church nyo.Kayo nagpapaliwanag ng naayon sa sariling pagkaunawa pero ang INC nagi-interpret sa pamamagitan din ng mga talata sa Biblia samantalang kayo magbabasa lang ng mga verses then sasabayan ninyo ng paliwanag na wala kayong binabasehan na tugon na nanggaling din sa Biblia.Marunong ka bang magdasal ng paulit-ulit? Aral ba ni Cristo ang magdasal ng paulit-ulit sa Rosary nyo? Di mo ba nakikita na Kulto ang gumagawa nyan?

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    7. Nakakatawa ang sobrang KAMANGMANGAN mo sa BIBLIA! Kahit pinagmulan ng Biblia mo ay di mo alam!

      Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
      Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
      Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
      Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
      Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
      Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
      Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
      Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
      Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

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    8. HAHAHA...wla ka naman naisagot kundi hahaha...kilala mo ba si Ezra? kilala mo ba c Mosses? kilala mo si Abram na tinawag na Abraham,si Isaac,si Jacob, si David at si Solomon...basahin mo ang gospel malalaman mo hindi puro hahaha ang nalalaman mo.alam mo ba ang Scroll of the Dead Sea.,alam mo ba ang J,E and D writers? sila ang kasangkapan ng mga nakasulat ngayn sa Bible....anu mag research ka naman...ang tamad mo,umaasa ka na lang sa sagot ko.

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    9. May naisagot naman ako sa post mo ah... ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

      Kaya pinost ko ang mga comments mo kasi people will laugh at how inaccurate or shallow your knowledge about the history of the Bible, history of the Catholic Church and history and content of the Holy rosary is.

      Before you open your mouth, think first. Whatever you say might be a source of LAUGHTER for my readers hahahahahahahahahaahahaha...

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    10. Anong shallow knowledge ang sinasabi mo? source of laughter...patawa ka baka ikaw ang natatawa sa mga sinasabi mo? kahit di ko alam ang rosary ninyo kabawal bawalan ng Diyos ang paulit-ulit na dasal.shallow knowledge nga lang ako pero ikaw masyadong matalino kaya di mo alam na ang rosary na dinadasalan ng paulit-ulit ay sa demonyo...shallow pero di mo magets...hahaha...katawa ka Brother.Di mo ba napanood ang sinabi ni Jesse Romero at ni Karl Keating kung pano nagkaroon ng name ang Simbahan nyo?Hindi nga ninyo alam kung sino ang si foundation stone ng church nyo eh mga scholar at matatalino kayo hanggang ngyon di nyo alam kung sino ang unang pang ulo ng Church nyo kung si Peter ba si James...hahahaha....si Cristo ang ulo...gets mo ba? taas ng IQ mo ano.

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    11. hahaha.. kaya siguro halatang di mo pinapatulan mismo ang aming mga OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS sa www.vatican.va kasi di kaya ng utak mo! Taas nga ng IQ mo dre hehehe

      At kahit ano pang sabihin mo, KAMI PA RIN ANG TUNAY NA IGLESIA NI CRISTO... kayo PEKE!

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    12. Matagal ko ng alam yan Brother.Ang mga naging Papa ninyo alam na rin ang mga sikreto ng kademonyohan sa Vatican.Wala ng mahabang paliwanag tungkol diyan Brother.Malalaman din sa mga archives sa mga tinatago ninyong mga aklat na hindi itinuro ng mga Patriarch ang TRINITY...no such thing as TRINITY in the Gospel.Kayo ang mga Fake kasi pilit ninyo tinatago ang tunay na Salita ng Diyos...bakit di na lang ninyo ilabas ang sikreto...kasi aalis lahat ng Katoliko at lilipat sa ibang relihiyon kapag nalaman ang totoo...mawawasak ang Church nyo pag nagka-ganun.

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    13. Mas matagal na naming alam ang mga paratang na yan. Bago pa man isinilanig ang mga ninuno ng mga magulang mo ay alam na namin yan at nasagot na ng makailang beses.

      Kaya huwag kang magmamarunong dito. Bago pa man naging bansa ang USA o naging bansa ang Pinas eh alam na namin yan...

      Eh ano ang tawag niyo sa DOXOLOGY niyong

      Purihin ang Ama
      Mabuhay sa pag-ibig ng Anak
      Tanggapin ang Espiritu Santo
      Ang Dios ay sambahin.


      MGA IPOKRITONG MGA MANALISTAS!

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    14. @Buddy Lachica....HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HE HE HEHEHEHWHEHE?HOHOHOHOHO! What a pathetic FOOL YOU ARE! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

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    15. Buddy Lachica finally realized his foolishness. Di raw INC pero kung bumanat sa Iglesia Katolika ay halata. Takpan mo man ang uwak, uwak pa rin ang huni...

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    16. @Buddy Lachica, your bible or the bible of Iglesia ni manalo was edited and reproduced by your founder and his early group. They altered the content for their own use, for justifying your false belief. Iglesia ni manalo misunderstood and misinterpreted Isaiah 43:5-6. The bible is pointing to Jerusalem and not the Philippines.

      Felix Manalo and INC central administration are thieves! They are Bible theives. They have stolen a promise from the Israelites and applied it unto themselves. As much as God loves the Filipino people and the Philippine nation, they are not ISRAEL! They are not called by his name! They are not JACOB! They did not exist when Isaiah prophesied this to his people.

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  2. he explains he's answer on the bible not like you mr.keating just telling your story i saw the movie your getting your answer by your own opinion while Bro. Jose Ventilacion read the bible you call that cult you have only three gods may your gods bless you

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    1. Lool... so where is the NAME of FELIX MANALO in the BIBLE?

      Karl Keating was examining Jose Ventilacion through REASON however Ventilacion always comes back to the Bible and make his BIG EXCUSE because he has NO RIGHT REASON to defend the INC of Felix Manalo.

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    2. better luck next time mr keating“loser” sounds bad, but it is real

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    3. better luck next time mr keating“loser” sounds bad, but it is real

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    4. so you mean Jesus is not true, even the name of jesus cannot be found in the old testament but it is written that he will come...
      like the prophecy for bro. Felix Manalo.

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    5. Pitong gatang felix manalo wala sa old and new testament

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    6. Hercules Aquino, you're so hooked on the Bible. I have some questions for you. This Bible that you INC people so love to quote out of context, was it around during the time of Jesus and the Apostles? Jesus and the Apostles taught without this Bible. So that invalidates all of their teachings?

      May your beloved angel Felix Manalo bless you too.

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    7. Nakakatawa ka naman Bro Josh,hinahanap mo ang name na Felix Manalo sa Biblia...even the word Philippines did not exist until 1850's, so how it can that happen?.Bakit ba ang mga tanong mo masyadong mababaw, nag-iisip ka ba muna bago ka magtanong?

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    8. Ganon pala. Kailan lang pala si Felix Manalo kaya wala sa Biblia.

      Pero paano naman ang Iglesia ni Cristo? Kailan lang ba ito naitatag? Diba JULY 27, 1914 lamang? Mas nauna pang ipinanganak si Felix Manalo bago pa niya naitatag ang kanyang REGISTERED CORPORATION na IGLESIA NI CRISTO.

      Sa makatuwid, HINDI kayo ang BINABANGGIT sa Roma 16:16?

      Kung hindi kayo, sino?

      Heto ang sabi ng OFFICIAL MAGAZINE ng Iglesia ni Cristo-1914:



      Pasugo April 1966, p. 6
      "...The Catholic Church which from the beginning was the Church of Christ (Iglesia ni Cristo)."

      Pasugo July August 1988 pp. 6.
      “Even secular history shows a direct time link between the Catholic Church and the Apostles, leading to the conclusion that the true Church of Christ is the Catholic Church.”

      Opinion mo? O official magazine ng INC™?

      Siyempre dun tayo sa official!

      Try harder!

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    9. Bakit ba pinagpipilitan mo sakin ang mga pasugo? Hindi ako miyembro ng INC,hindi ako miyembro ng kahit anong simbahan...ang pinaniniwalaan ko ay ang katotohanan na nasa Biblia at ang aking Diyos ay iisa lang at un ang Ama ang Ama nating lahat ang ama din ni Cristo.Ikaw marami kang Diyos isa kang Pagano, diyos-diyosan ang sinasamba mo.

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    10. Buddy Lachica, bawal ang UNYANGO rito.. at kahit ano pang pagbabalat-kayo mo ay amoy namin kung anong klaseng nilalang ka.

      Ang laki ng problema mo eh, isa kang nilalang na WALANG IDENTITY. Di mo alam kung ano ka, INC o ano mang sekta.

      At feeling mo pah eh GINAWA at SINULAT ang Biblia para exclusive sau. Naniniwala ka sa isang Biblia eh di mo alam kung SINO ang nagbigay sa iyo nito.

      Bakit binato ba sa yo mula sa langit ang version ng iyong Bbilia? Hoy ipokrito at unyango, yang hawak mong biblia ay HINDI mo pinagpaguran. May mga nagsunog ng kilay para magkaroon niya. Kaya bago mo ANGKININ ang biblia, bah, i-acknowledge mo naman ang pinanggalingan niyan... ANG IGLESIA KATOLIKA.

      Para kang isang mamamayan na SUMUSUNOD sa Constitution pero kinakalaban ang Gobyerno.

      Yang hawak mong 'Constitution' ay gawa ng GOBYERNO (Iglesia Katolika). Hindi yan nasulat ng kanyang sarili.

      Kung walang gobyerno (Iglesia), walang constitution (Biblia). Maari mong unawain ang nilalaman ng Constitution (Biblia) pero sino ang magpapaliwanag sa iyo sa mga bagay-bagay na di mo maunawaan? Sarili mo ? Bakit ikaw ba may-akda niyan?

      Kaya nga may "Supreme Court" (Magisterium) para sila ang magpapaliwanag sa iyo sa mga bagay-bagay na maaaring di mo maunawaan sa Constitution (Bible) na hawak mo.

      Hindi porket may hawak kang Constitution (Bible) eh pinoy (Christian) ka na. Hindi porket may nauunawaan ka sa Constitution (Bible) eh nagmamarunong ka na.

      Heto nga't disillusioned ka na... NAGMAMAGALING kang Katoliko pero sala naman ang iyong nalalaman. TUNOG mo ay INC pero DENY ka naman ng DENY.

      Katulad mo tuloy si Conrad J. Obligacion na kaanib ng kultong dini-deny mo... deny ng deny pero kaanib pala siya.

      Kung INC ka ipagmalaki mo at huwag mong ikahiya! PROUDLY PINOY-MADE yan!

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    11. Nagagalit ka naman Brother,amoy INC ba ako? Patawa ka ano,INC lang ba ang pwedeng bumatikos sa paniniwala mo? Hey hindi sa inyo galing ang Biblia, baka nalimutan nyo na ang Biblia ay may pinag kuhanan na orihinal na mga aklat na isinulat pa ng mga ancient writers, sila un mga nagtatala ng mga pangyayaring may kinalaman sa pananampalataya ng mga tao nang una pa at ang meron ibang naisulat ay galing mismo sa sulat ng Diyos na itinatak ng kidlat sa Bato nang panahon ni Mosses ang " Ten Commandments" . Kautusan,Mga Hula at Kasaysayan ng mga tao ang mababasa sa mga aklat na pinagsama-sama at isinaling sa wikang Griego then sa Ingles...kaya ang Biblia ay hindi lang isang aklat, ito ay binubuo ng maraming aklat na hinati sa Lumang Tipan at Bagong Tipan.Nangopya lang kayo sa mga orihinal na aklat kaya huwag nyo angkinin ang Biblia dahil sa mismong akalt nakasaulat na ang Salita ng Diyos ay para sa lahat ng tao.Gusto ng Diyos na pag isahin tayong lahat sa iisang pananampalataya.Huwag nyo ipagpilitan na INC ako kc mainit ang dugo nyo sa INC.Di ako epokrito sa pagsasabing naniniwala ako sa INC kahit hindi nila ako miyembro pero sa aral nyo naku po wlang sustansya, aral at doktrina ng Demonyo ang nalalaman nyo.

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    12. Para di halatang uwak ka, humuni ka ng kakaibang tunog ok.

      At kahit ano pang sabihin mo KAMI pa rin ang TUNAY na IGLESIA NI CRISTO ayon sa inyong official pasugo.

      Papansin ka na lang sa mga comments mo... paulit ulit nakakasawa.

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    13. Hindi Gobyerno ang Katoliko? Ang Simbahan at Gobyerno ay magkahiwalay.Hindi Constitution ang Biblia dahil ang Saligang Batas ng Gobyerno ay gawa ng Tao samantalang ang Batas Ng Diyos ay Gawa ng Diyos.Ang Batas ng Gobyerno kahit walang abogado ay kayang unawain ng simpleng mamamayan maliban na kung no read no write ka, ganun din ang batas ng Diyos ay nauunawaan din dahil kelangan maunawaan ito ng tao na pinauukulan subalit ang mga Hula sa Biblia ay kelangan ang Propeta na pinili ng Diyos upang sya ang magpaliwanag ng katotohanan.Ang ibang batas natin ay hinango sa Biblia lalo na ang Ten Commandments.AT isa pa sobrang marumi ang mga politiko kaya nga kayong mga katoliko sobrang hilig ninyo sa politika,after lang kayo sa kapangyarihan at salapi at wla talaga kayong pinag-iba sa mga Romans na sumikil sa tunay na Relihiyon ng mga unang siglo...kaya nga tinawag kayog Roman Catholic dahil iisang anyo ninyo ng mga sakim na Romano na pinagmulan nyo.

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    14. Analogy ko un sa mga taong katulad mo... mababa ang IQ at mahinang umintindi.

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    15. By the way Buddy Lachica, ung akusasyon mong "TATLO ANG DIOS" namin ay LINYA ng mga INCorporated yan... kasi para sa kanila ay Dios Ama lamang ang Dios hehehe

      Di ka nga INC... hahahahahahaha

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  3. Pitong KandelerongGinto, Jesus' name is in the Bible. Your Felix Manalo's name is not. Catholic Defender was referring to the Scriptures in general. He did not say old or new. Your argument is a mere testament of the fact that INC members are slow to understand or even fail to understand arguments against their faith. And you Gina Syrine, your comment made me laugh. You are only showing that you did not really understand what happened in that debate. Your Mr. Ventilacion cannot even defend when confronted by Mr. Keating that the verse Mr. Ventilacion was citing does not contain the words "Church of Christ" but "Church of God". All he could say in reply was, "That's your opinion." Hahaha! That was not Mr. Keating's opinion. That's what the Scripture says! The problem with INC ministers and its members is that when they are cornered which they usually are, they make crazy answers and resort to dirty tactics to try to get out of the hole as evidenced by this debate. What really Mr. Ventilacion meant was, "I can't defend my position Mr. Keating." But he is so proud to admit that. INC members, you want the truth? Stop listening to your ministers and begin doing your own research and investigation.

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    Replies
    1. That's TYPICALLY Iglesia ni Manalo thing! They always think they WIN in a debate when they have the higher number of cheerers.. in Filipino we call that "HAKOT" (bringing people to cheer them up).

      INC ni Manalo is a cult, believing only what they want to believe even if their Last Sugo would say that the color red is white, they would believe that way.

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    2. That's how they judge debates. By decibels. Whichever team has the loudest cheers, that team wins. To these people, facts and reason does not matter. Well, I am not surprised by how low the IQ of these people have become. Their minds are closed clouded by the deception of their ministers who twists facts and established truths to bend to their own interests. Outside they look like they're serving God but inside they have dark motives. I read from somewhere that Mr. Ventilacion is their best debater. Really? My 2-year-old daughter can do a better job.

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    3. Alin man sa Iglesia ng Dios or Iglesia ni Cristo ang tama,isa lng ang siguradong mali, ang Iglesia Katolika ay hindi tunay na Iglesia dahil wala kahit Cristo o Dios na mababasa sa pangalan ng church nila.Hindi dapat na makisakay ang Katolika sa pagsasabing sila ang tunay na relihiyon dahil sa pangalan pa lang bagsak na sila.Kung sa initial phase pa lang ng argument zero na sila, mabuting huwag na silang sumulong sa 2nd step...wala silang karapatan na makipag-debate.

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    4. Yan ang sabi ni FELIX MANALO.

      Pero 1 vs 7 billion

      Ang sabi ng KASAYSAYAN eh ang Iglesia Katolika LAMANG ang tanging may kasaysayan pabalik sa panahon ng mga Apostol.. kaya nga Apostolic ang Iglesia Katolika.

      At bago ka magsaya sa salitang IGLESIA NI CRISTO, baka mamatay ka sa katotohanang ang tinutukoy rito ay ang IGLESIA SA ROMA.

      Roma 16:16 "Ang lahat ng mga iglesia ni Cristo ay bumabati sa INYO (Iglesia sa Roma)"

      HINDI kayo un.. ung sa inyo ay TRADEMARK, kahit tumawid na sa US eh TAGALOG pa rin ang gamit.. parang SAN MIGUEL BEER di pwedeng palitan ang REGISTERED PATENT TRADEMARK niya...

      Heto ang tunay na Ang NAG-IISANG IGLESIA NI CRISTO

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    5. Opo kayo nga po ang relihiyon na tumalikod sa tunay na Aral ng Diyos kayo na bumaluktot sa tamang Aral ng tunay na Iglesia na itinayo ng Panginoong Jesu Cristo.Kayo po yon,kaya nga naiba na ang mga doctrina nyo. Ang Iglesia po sa Roma ay tumutukoy sa Mga Iglesia ni Cristo na nasa Roma.Ang Roma po ay isang lugar at hindi po pangalan ng nagtayo ng tunay na Relihiyon...kung ang Roma ang pangalan ng nagtayo ng inyong Relihiyon maaaring sabihin Iglesia Katolika Apostolika Romana.Tama po, kayo nga po ang bulaang Iglesia.Di nyo ba napanood ang debate ni Mr.Keating at ng INC, diba ninyo napanood na nasa inyo ang mga Doktrina ng DEMONYO? Di ba bawal mag asawa ang mga Priest at binawabawal nyo ang pagkain ng karne pag Mahal na araw.Kapatid hindi pride ang isang Relihiyon, kung pride lang ang pinaiiral mo,ililigaw ka ng pride mo na yan.

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    6. Saan ba nakasulat sa Biblia na MATATALIKOD ANG BUONG IGLESIA? At kung sakaling nangyami man ito, saan ba ito NAKATALA SA PAHINA NG KASAYSAYAN ng tao?

      On the contrary, your OFFICIAL MAGAZINE Pasugo confirms that this same CATHOLIC CHURCH haven't apostatized "completely".

      PASUGO Mayo 1968, p. 5:
      "Ano ang katangian ng maging Tupa ni Cristo? Sa Juan 10:28 ay ganito ang sabi: 'At sila'y binigyan ko ng walang hanggang buhay, at kailanma'y hindi sila malilipol, at hindi aagawin ng sinuman sa aking kamay'. Isang dakilang kapalaran ang maging Tupa o Tauhan ni Cristo sapagkat sila'y binibigyan niya ng walang hanggang buhay at hindi sila malilipol kailan man."

      PASUGO Hunyo 1940, p. 27:
      "Papaano ang pag-aalaga at pag-iingat sa pananampalataya? Wala tayong dapat gawin kundi manatili sa mga aral ng Dios na ating napag-aralan. Ito ang ginawa ng unang Iglesia. Sila'y nanatiling matibay sa aral ng mga Apostol. Ganito rin ang dapat nating gawin."

      PASUGO, Abril 1966, p. 46:
      “Ang totoo hanggang sa kasalukuyan ay patuloy na ginagawa ni Satanas ang pagpapasok ng mga maling aral sa Iglesia Katolika na sa pasimula'y siyang Iglesia ni Cristo. Sadyang matalino at tuso ang diablo. Hindi niya ginawang biglaan ang pagtalikod sa Iglesiang itinayo ni Cristo noong unang siglo."

      So kung gusto mo kaming maniwala sa yong opinion, mad dito na lang kami sa OFFCIAL na galing sa INCorporated Church of Manalo-- ang INC™

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    7. Bakit kayo nagtataguyod ng mga Aral ng Demonyo? Sagutin mo yan kapatid.
      Hindi nagtuturo ng aral ng Demonyo ang tunay na Relihiyon.

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    8. Hmm on the contrary, MISMONG si ERAÑO MANALO ang nagsabi ng ganito:

      "lumalaganap iyang espiritung iyan na DAYAIN ANG ULAT, dayain ang ulat, LINLANGIN ANG PANGANGASIWA."

      Espiritu raw ng PANDARAYA! Sino ang Ama ng Pandaraya? Ang Diablo.

      Samakatuwid sa loob ng INC™, lumalaganap pandaraya ng diablo...

      Sige, try more harder!

      Eh sino ba si Eraño Manalo para bigyan ng SAYSAY at BIGAT ang kanyang mga pangungusap?

      Siya ang IKALAWANG PUNONG MINISTRO ng INC, anak ng yumaong Felix Manalo-- SUGO raw sa mga huling araw.

      Kitam?

      Sige try harder!

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    9. Dito galing ang mga PAHAYAG NG YUMAONG ERAÑO MANALO, pakinggan mong maige ha...

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    10. Kulit mo rin ano...hindi ako miyembro ng INC, hindi ako miyembro ng kahit anong simbahan...Biblia ang pinaniniwalaan ko hindi Pasugo...gets mo ba? Ang aral ng Biblia at ang aral nyo ang pagtalunan natin.Sino ang PAPA nyo bakit nyo sya tinatawag na Espiritual Father samantalang ang Diyos lang ang sinasabi sa Biblia na Spriritual Father natin,saan nyo kinuha ang aral na yan, sa Demonyo ba?

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    11. Kapal din naman ng mukha mo ano? Tinatangkilik mo ang Biblia pero wala kang "simbahan'? Ano ka, SPECIAL CHILD?

      Di namin alam na SINULAT pala ang Biblia EXCLUSIVE para sa iyo? Ikaw bang nagsulat niyan? Ikaw ba ang naglagay ng CHAPTERS and VERSES nun? May naiambag ka ba kahit TULDOK o KUWIT man lamang sa Bibliang hawak mo? O kahit isang salita na trinanslate mo from Greek to English or Tagalog o kahit Hebrew to English to Tagalog? Meron ba?

      Ang Biblia ay parang Constitution yan. May Gobyerno (Church) muna bago nagkaroon ng Constitution (Biblia).

      Ang mga ministro at pastor (ng Protestante) ay parang mga "lawyers" yan. Nagtatalo-talo sila sa Court (their sects) at malaya silang unawain (personal interpretation) ang nilalaman ng Constitution (Bible). Pero IISA lamang ang may karapatang sabihin sa kanila kung ANO ba talaga ang TUNAY na kapakahulugan ng pinagtatalunan nilang Constitution (Bible)... ito ay ang SUPREME COURT (MAGISTERIUM).

      Very convinient na sabihin mong Biblia ang sinusunod mo eh dahil din sa Biblia na yan kaya may 30,000 different SECTS now in the world and still growing.

      Pastor sa pastor iba iba ang pagkaunawa at interpretasyon. Kaya nga kahit maraming mga Born Again groups at mga quasi-christian groups pero HINDI man sila MAPAGKAISA ng Biblia hehehehe... di sila nagkakasundo sa isang talata.

      So ang Biblia ba ay SOURCE of DIVISION? Parang ganon nga.

      Pero sa CATHOLIC CHURCH... it's the SAME BIBLE we revered. We may speak different languages, or we may have different cultures and traditions, separated by race and time yet the CATHOLIC CHURCH IS ONE. We, the 1.2 BILLION people (1/6 of world's total population) are still the LARGEST SINGLE Religious group in the world surpassing that of any other existing major religion in the world.

      Sinong NAGBUKLOD sa 1.2 BILLION na taong ito? Ang BIBLIA (Constitution)!!!! Ang IGLESIA (Gobyerno).... at MAGISTERIUM (Supreme Court)....

      Sinusunod namin ang tatlong yan... CONSTITUTION (Bible), GOVERNMENT (Church) at ang SUPREME COURT (Magisterium)... kaya kami NAG-KAKAISA.

      O ngayon, sinong kaanib mo? Sarili mo? Para kang isang ibong UWAK, sabi kalapati siya pero UWAK naman ng UWAK hehehe...

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    12. Hehehe oo nga uwak ako at inaamin ko mababa lang ang IQ ko...oo kaanib ko ang sarili ko,hindi ako nagpapadikta kahit kanino at lalong hindi ako follower ng mga Demonyong Simbahan.Ikaw follower ka ni Satanas, na gets mo ba?Bakit pati kontitusyon binabanggit mo pa eh di mo ba natatalastas na ang lilipulin ng Diyos kasama ng Diablo sa paghuhukom ay kasing dami ng buhangin sa dagat...kayo un kasi kayo ang pinaka-maraming miyembro....hahaha...marunong ka ba umintindi ng mga nasusulat sa Biblia? nakakatawa kayong mga matatalino.Konti lang ang mga taong papasok sa Tamang Daan dahil makipot pero sa Daan na Maluwag sa ikapapahamak ay marami ang papasok...kayo yun ang Relihiyon na Maluwag at pinaka maraming miyembro...kawaka ka naman Brother.

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    13. Huwag mo sakin ipag-dikdikan ang INC di ko sila kasama, nag-iisa lng akong kalaban mo sa diskusyon na ito.Itanong mo na lang sa mga refence book nyo kung sino ang Murderer/Slayer ni Cristo at ng mga Apostle diba sila ang mga Romans na mga kasabwat ng Roman Catholic Church...actually ang church nyo ang product ng Church and Politics Conspiracy...pagkatapos na pinagpapatay ninyo si Cristo at mga Apostol...ano nangangamote ka na? You can not deny that.Eto pa ang isang katunayan...ask mo si Rizal kung sino ang Paring abusado na sinasabi nya sa El Fili...?

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    14. Buti inamin mong LOW IQ ka, pwes understood na DI KAYA ng iyong utak ang intelligence in our official documents sa www.vatican.va, ngayon kung bakit ka ngalngal ng ngalngal sapagkat sa likod ng iyong isip ay alam mong PEKE ang INC™ ni Manalo at nakakabinging pakinggan ang sinasabi ng mga historians na ang IGLESIA KATOLIKA pa rin ang nag-iisang HISTORICAL CHURCH which can trace its roots back to the times of the apostles.

      Sige iiyak mo lang yan... maiibsan din yan.

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    15. Hay naku kamangmangan ang talino mo Bata.Nasa ulo mo lang ang IQ mo,wla kang talino sa Espiritwal.Napaka-simple ng argumento hindi kelangan ang mataas na IQ pero hirap na hirap kang umintindi.Tignan mo ang mga kaanib ninyo nasa politika, mga magnanakaw ng Pork Barrel, diba karamihan ay miyembro nyo.Alam mo sasabihin ko lang naman sayo Bobo akong tao pero katapat ng kabobohan ko ay High IQ na sa inyo...hahaha

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    16. Walang sustansya ang Vatcan.va na website nyo...propaganda lang.

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    17. Hoy Manalistang Unyango, talino sa talino ba kamo? Kaya di mo kayang tanggapin ang IQ at intelligence ng Catholic Doctrine ay sapagkat DI KAYANG ARUKIN ng UTAK mong nasa talampakan.

      Mga argument mo LABO LABO na. Kasing-labo ng aral ni MANALO na naka-angla sa PANINIRA para siya maging tama sa paningin ng kanyang mga kaanib!

      Unyango, MANALISTANG MANALISTA ka talaga... kalapati ang balat pero uwak ang huni hehehe.. a SHEEP in WOLF's CLOTHINGS... balatkayo... paimbabaw, manlilinlang at mandaraya...

      Ganyan na ganyan ang inyong sugong "MABABANG MORAL"!

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  4. Pitong KandelerongGinto, prophecy for Bro. Felix Manalo ka jan. Nakakatawa talaga kayo. For sure, If I go into one of your church services and declare that I am the first cousin of Archangel Michael, you would all pledge your allegiance to me.

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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. Oh so pano niyo nalamang si FELIX MANALO ang hula-hoops na pinag-aangkin niyo from the Bible? Eh kahit pasuri pa natin eh WALANG PROPHESY about the COMING of ANOTHER MESSENGER na halos mas nakakahigit pa kay Hesus?

      Kung may HULA man tungkol kay Felix Manalo ay heto:

      2 JOHN 1:7
      "I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."


      Felix Manalo denied the DIVINITY of Christ becoming Flesh, therefore HE was prophesied and he FULFILLED it!

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    3. Bro baka nakakalimutan mo ang Prophecy ay isang Hula at ang hula ay di bumabanggit ng eksaktong pangalan kundi ito ay bumabanggit ng Description ng tao,lugar at panahon.Lawakan nyo naman ang isip nyo.Hindi ako member ng INC pero alam ko kung sino sa inyo ang nagsasabi ng tama.

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    4. The word becomes flesh...not our Almighty God becomes flesh...understand?

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    5. Ang lahat ba ng Hula ay tama? Sino ang nanghuhula at sino ang hinulaan? Pero ang lahat ng hula sa biblia ay patungkol sa:

      1. Pagdating ng Mesiah (Lumang Tipan)
      2. Ang pagpapakasakit at pagtutubos nito
      3. Ang paglaganap ng Iglesiang tunay
      4. Ang PAGTALIKOD ng ilang mga kaanib (at HINDI ang Iglesia) - dito pa lang mangangamatis na si FElix Manalo niyo.
      5. Ang paghuhukom at pagdating ng delubyo at ng mga ANTI-CRISTO na HINDI tumatanggap sa Hesus (Dios) na nagkatawang tao (2 John. 1:7), natupad ang hulang iyon mismo kay FElix Manalo.

      Kaya tama nga. Nasa HULA ang pagdating ni FElix Manalo.

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    6. Anonymous INC said:
      The word becomes flesh...not our Almighty God becomes flesh...understand?

      CD2000:
      Eh kapag sinabi kong nauuhaw ako at gusto kong uminom. Kailangan ko pa bang sabihing tubig ang nais ko? Tanga lang ang magbibigay ng bato kapag nauuhaw ang isang tao.

      At kapag sinabi ba na "he was swept away by water" sa tingin mo isang baso lamang ang tumangay at lumunod sa isang tao?

      Natural kahit di ko na sabihing 'MALAKAS NA RUMARAGASANG TUBIG" understood naman na un.. implied kung baga sa English.. o baka mangamatis ka...

      Kapag sinabi ng Biblia na the WORD was GOD eh LAHAT na ng ATTIBUTES ng DIOS ay naroon na... hindi na kailangang ISA-ISAHIN pa yan...

      Pwede rin.. sa mga katulad mong low IQ at ang utak ay nasa talampakan.
      Kaya't nauunawaan ka namin kung bakit mahina kang umunawa...

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    7. Anong attributes ang pinagsasabi mo? Baka nakakalimutan mo na Pag ang lahat ay napasuko na kay Cristo si Cristo naman ang susuko sa Ama at sya ang maghahari sa kalahat-lahatan...eto pa...ito ang buhay na walang hanggan na makilala ka nila na IISANG DIYOS NA TUNAY,yan ang sabi ni Cristo.Naniniwala ka ba kay Cristo o hindi? Bro mataas man ang IQ mo ako average lang pero di kailangan ang mataas na IQ dito sa pinag-uusapan natin,ang Espiritu Santo na gumagabay sa tao ay may mga karunungan na para sa Espiritu at hindi para sa IQ mo, di na kailangan ang mataas na IQ dito.Nagets mo ba ako Mr. High IQ?

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    8. Sabi mo lahat ng Attributes ng Dios ay naroon na? Di ka ba confused sa mga pangungusap mo? Di mo ba nagets na ang kapangyarihan ni Cristo ay binigay sa kanya ng Ama...kung Diyos mo si Cristo mas makapangyarihan ang Dios ko, sya ang Ama dahil ibinigay lang ng Dios ko na sya rin ang Ama ang lahat ng power ng Dios mo....pumapayag ka pala na ang Diyos mo ay nabiyayaan lang ng power na galing sa Dios ko...hahaha...patawa ka naman...ang taas ng IQ mo pero di mo nauunawaan ang mga sinasabi mo...confused ka na kapatid.Ewan ko sa iyo kapatid ang IQ mo hanggang panlupa lang,karunungan na pang Espiritu pinag-uusapan natin...gets mo ba?

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    9. Talaga namang may IISANG DIOS. Sino bang INGKONG ang nagturo sa iyo na dalawa o tatlo o milyon ang dios? Huwag mong ipangaral sa amin ang mga baluktot na aral ni Felix Manalong PEKENG SUGO niyo sapagkat bago pa man siya isinilang ay may sagot na kami sa mga paratang niya sa amin.

      Tandaan mo, wala pa kayong 100 taon samantalang kami ay mahigit 2,000 years na kami... unfair na i-compare sapagkat para kayong tungaw na nakasiksik sa kalyo ng elepante, ala nang kwenta, nakikisiksik pa pero di naman nia kayang mabuhay ng walang elepante..

      IQ ba kamo? Sino ba sa mga BAYARANG MINISTRO niyo ang may angking talino?!

      Wala! Puro kayo parasites, nakikinabang na lamang sa lahat na pinagpaguran ng mga Katoliko at Protestante na para sa inyong rapist na sugo ay mga kampon ng kadiliman.... mga IPOKRITO!

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  5. About this VICARIUS FILII DEI thing. Only people ignorant of the Roman Numeral System would keep using this to attack the Pope and the Church. Granted that the Pope uses this title, so what? What's the problem with it? That it amounts to 666? It does not amount to 666. Only deceptions by INC people and other anti-Catholic sects would amount the title to the number of the beast. This is how the deception is done: VICARIVS(V is used instead of U because there is no U in the Latin alphabet)=5+1+100+0+0+1+5+0=112; FILII=0+1+50+1+1=53; DEI=500+0+1=501. Add it all up: 112+53+501=666. Wow! The Pope is the beast! Complete idiocy! Or deception! For the benefit of those who forgot the Roman Numbers, here it is:
    I 1
    V 5
    X 10
    L 50
    C 100
    D 500
    M 1000
    INC members and other anti-Catholic cults like Ang Dating Daan fail to consider this basic rule of the system. A string of letters means that their values should be added together. For example, XXX = 10 + 10 + 10 = 30, and LXI = 50 + 10 + 1 = 61. If a smaller value is placed before a larger one, we subtract instead of adding. For instance, IV = 5 - 1 = 4.
    Now take note of the last two sentences. A smaller value that precedes a larger value, you will not add the values but subtract the smaller from the larger. So looking at V IC A R IV S=5+99(IC=100-1)+0+0+4(IV=5-1)+0=108; F IL I I=0+49(IL=50-1)+1+1=51; D E I=500+0+1=501. Add it all up: 108+51+501=660. So the title VICARIVS FILII DEI amounts to 660 and not 666! See the deception? INC members, Ang Dating Daan and other anti-Catholic cults would do well if they tell the truth as it is instead of twisting it to suit their evil motives against the Catholic Church.

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    Replies
    1. Ano ka ba naman nagpapaka-hirap ka pa sa pag compute. Eto simple lng...
      Diyos Ama + Diyos Anak + Diyos Espiritu Santo = IISANG DIYOS...in mathematical interpretation it goes like this,1+1+1=1...ang husay nyo sa Mathematics...hehehe...

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    2. Huwag ka na magpakahirap sa mga roman numerals na yan.Eto simple lang kapatid, bakit ninyo tinuturing na Spiritual Father ang Papa? You should not call any man a “FATHER” because there is only one FATHER w/c is the FATHER in heaven” and this verse does not talk about your biological Father...mahirap ba kilalanin ang totoong Relihiyon para sayo? Yan ang isa pa sa mga aral ng Demonyo...gets mo ba ulit ang nais kong ipunto sayo?

      Delete
    3. Hehehe.. nakakatawa ka. Kung mathematics lang naman ang pag-uusapan eh ADDITION lang ba ang operational when it comes to computation?

      1 X 1 X 1 = 1 (ONE)...TRINITY in ONE...

      Sige, isa pang analogy:

      Water (Liquid) + Vapor (Gas) + Ice (Solid) = H2O
      Water is not Vapor and Vapor is not Ice but the same H20
      Water is H20, Vapor is H2O and Ice is H2O yet they are different distinct from one another...

      Sige, paganahin mo IQ mong nasa talampakan.

      Dako naman tayo sa inyong DOXOLOGY kuno! Mga gawa ito ng mga nagmamagaling na mga bayarang ministro:

      Purihin natin ang Ama
      Mabuhay sa pag-ibig ng Anak
      Taglayin ang Espiritung Banal
      Ang DIOS ay lagi nating sambahin.
      Amen


      Sige pagpapalitin natin ang Ama, Anak at Espiritu, tingnan natin kung magbabago ba ang kahulugan o kung may nilabag ba tayo sa mga nakasulat sa Biblia... ready?

      Purihin natin ang ANAK
      Mabuhay sa pag-ibig ng AMA
      Taglayin ang ESPIRITUNG BANAL
      Ang DIOS ay lagi nating sambahin (Ilan ba ang binanggit, isa o tatlo?)
      Amen

      Isa pa:

      Purihin natin ang ESPIRITUNG BANAL
      Mabuhay sa pag-ibig ng AMA
      Taglayin ang ANAK
      Ang DIOS ay lagi nating sambahin (ilang bang binanggit isa o tatlo?)
      Amen


      Ngayon at pinagpalit-palit natin ang posisyon ng Ama, Anak at Espiritu Santo, NAGBAGO ba ang kahulugan? Na-insulto ba ang Ama kung ang papuri din ay PAREHONG-PAREHO sa Anak at Espiritung Banal?

      Yan ang IQ, bumabanggit kayo ng mga salitang DI NIYO NAUUNAWAAN at NAIINTINDIHAN!

      Mga IPOKRITO at mga PAIMBABAW!

      Delete
    4. Brother pinag-uusapan natin ang nag-iisang tunay na Diyos...huwag mong ibahin ang usapan. ang Espirito Santo at ang Anak kahit pinupuri hindi siya o hindi sila dapat na kilalanin na iisang tunay na Diyos.Ang iisang Diyos na tunay ay ang nagsusugo sa kanila sa gawain na ipinagagawa sa kanila ng Diyos....hirap mo pala umintindi.Ang Diyos ay mananatiling Diyos magpakailanman,wlang ibang Diyos na nauna sa kanya at wala nang iba pa na darating.Palagay Ko Seminarista ka, sa pakiramdam ko lang kasi matigas ang ulo mo...hehehe.Alam mo Brother Uncle ko ang namayapang Cardinal Sin...pero hindi ako sumasang-ayon sa kanya, sayo pa kaya.

      Delete
    5. Kaya pala nang ang Diyos ay nagkatawang Tao naging Solid GOD na sya ( Cristo na Sya )...hahaha patawa ka na naman...nag transform sya from Gas God to Solid God... sino ang tinatawag nya na Ama habang nakatingala sa langit? alangan naman na sarili nya rin ang tinutukoy nya...sya na un Solid God sya pa ang Gas God...eh ngayon sino naman ang Liquid God? hehehe....ang sarap mong kausap Brother, kahit magpaikot-ikot ka ikaw pa rin ang tumbok ng target ko.
      Solid God + Liquid God + Gas God = 1 X 1 X 1 = 1 (ONE)...TRINITY in ONE...hehehehehehehe ang sarap mong kausap Brother meron ka palang SOLID GOD,LIQUID GOD AT GAS GOD...HAHAHAHA...HHOOOOOOO...IM SO HAPPY TODAY

      Delete
    6. Eh di natawa ka rin sa kab*b*han mo hehehe...

      Delete
  6. During the debate, Karl Keating confronted Iglesia Ni Manalo debater Jose Ventilacion with the passage in the Bible when Thomas said, "My Lord and my God." Ventilacion answered, "Thomas was wrong." How foolish! If Thomas was wrong, Jesus himself would have corrected Thomas. If Thomas was wrong, wouldn't it be right for Jesus to immediately correct him? Why would Jesus wait for 2000 years to correct Thomas through the Iglesia Ni Manalo? Why did Jesus not correct Thomas himself? Because Thomas was NOT WRONG! Thomas was speaking the truth. That is why Jesus accepted the statement of Thomas that he is God. Iglesia Ni Manalo and Jose Ventilacion is WRONG! Not Thomas. But the Devil, being the father of lies, hates the truth. That is why those who belong to him will naturally tell lies and deceptions. Just like the Iglesia Ni Manalo and Jose Ventilacion. They hate the truth. They live by telling lies and twisting the Scripture's message to deceive many. To all of you who belong to Manalo's Iglesia, open your eyes. Examine for yourself. But you are not allowed by the Iglesia administration to do your own examination right? Otherwise, you would know the truth. Nevertheless, investigate for yourself. Your salvation and your eternal damnation all depends on you. Not on your deceitful ministers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kapatid did you watch the debate in full o di ka nakakaintindi? Di mo ba napanood ang sagot ni Mr. Ventilacion? Eto ang example: Thomas was one of Jesus Christ's 12 apostles, specially chosen to spread the gospel after the Lord's crucifixion and resurrection. The Apostle Thomas was not present when the risen Jesus first appeared to the disciples. When told by the others, "We have seen the Lord," Thomas replied that he would not believe it unless he could actually touch Jesus' wounds.Jesus later presented himself to the apostles and invited Thomas to inspect his wounds. Thomas was also present with the other...yan basahin mo para maliwanagan ka kapatid,pag aralan mo ang istorya ni Thomas bago ka mag koment mag aral ka muna ng lessson mo, huwag ka palagi umaasa sa iba.

      Delete
    2. @Buddy Lachica: Very obvious na kamping-kampi ka kay Mr Ventilacion. Aminin mo na na INC member ka nga talaga. Halata naman eh. Sino ba ang taong kakampi sa INC leaders kundi kapwa niya INC rin?? The other 33,000 Protestant Christian denominations have animosities or hatred towards INC. Kaya hwag ka nang mag-deny. Halatang-halata talaga na INC ka. If your are fooling somebody, it is only yourself.

      Delete
  7. INK = Iglesia Ng Kontra-kontrang turo
    INC = Iglesia Ng Contradiction
    Kung alam lang ng mga taong ito ang mga kontra-kontrang turo ng kanilang Iglesya...
    A word of advice to INC members: Examine your Pasugo magazines. There you'll find the contradicting doctrines of your beloved Church.

    And remember: God does not contradict himself.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. “Kung ating sinasamba ang larawan ni Kristong napapako sa Krus, dinadasal natin: ‘Sinasamba kita at pinupuri, Panginoon kong JesuCristo,…”

      [Siya ang Inyong Pakinggan: Ang Aral na Katoliko, sinulat ni Padre Enrique Demond, inilathala ng Catholic Trade School, may imprimatur ni Jose Bustamante, pahina 12 ]

      inamin naman pala ng mga paring katoliko na sinasamba nila ang larawan eh ^_^ .. NOTE: May imprematur yan! ^_^

      ETO PA HA!

      “ Pagbangon mo sa banig ay agad kang manikluhod sa harap ng isang Krus o isang mahal na larawan. Kung maninikluhod ka sa tapat ng Altar magwika ka ng ganito: Sinasamba kita,”

      [Catesismo, ni Padre Luis de Amezquita, pahina 79 at 82].

      yan. .catesismo pa yan! pari nag sulat nyan.. hayy nako.. konteng aral muna at research ha.. pa challenge challenge ka pa ^_^

      Dapat tayong magkaroon lalo na sa ating mga simbahan, ang mga larawan ng ating Panginoong, tulad ng sa pinagpalang Birhen at mga santo, at dapat natin silang bigyan ng kaukulang paggalang at pagsamba”.

      [Salin sa Filipino mula sa Cathecism of Christian Doctrine, inilathala ng De La Salle College, pahina 95]

      kaya naman pala may mga larawan sa mga simbahang katoliko kasi kaylangan nilang pagukulan ng paggalang at pagsamba yun ^_^

      Delete
    2. Tanong mo, sagot mo.

      May isasagot pa ba kami eh ikaw na mismo ang sumagot sa tanong mo?

      Kung may sagot ka na sa tanong mo eh di huwag ka nang magtanong...

      Delete
  8. I challenge all Iglesia Ni Manalo and Ang Dating Daan ministers, pastors and members. Show me one Catholic doctrine that teaches its followers to worship idols (i.e. the images of saints and the like). If you cannot produce one doctrine, then let that be an indication and an acknowledgment that all this time you have been telling lies to your members and to everyone in order to convert these people into your fake Church of God. Eduardo Manalo and Eli Soriano, you are part of this challenge.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bro kelan ka ba isinilang bakit hanggang ngayon di mo pa alam na sumasamba ang katoliko sa mga larawan at rebulto,ano ka ba naman? Did you watch The Feast of Black Nazarine? Kung may panyo ka ipahid mo rin baka mabuksan ang utak mo at gumaling yan bulag mong mga mata...bulag sa katotohanan.

      Delete
    2. Manalista, ikaw kailan ba tinatag ng INCorporated Church ni Manalo at parang mas maalam ka pa sa kasaysayan?

      Di mo ba alam na ang mga doctrine niyo eh COPY-PASTE?

      1. Si Cristo ay hindi Dios (Arianism)
      2. Tao lamang siya (Islam)
      3. Pope 666 (SDA)
      4. Bible Alone (Martin Luther)
      5. Huling Sugo (lamang noong 1922 - Mormons)
      6. Temple (Mormons)
      7. Total Apostasy (Mormons)

      Mga basic lang naman ito sa mga KINOPYA ng rapist niyong Sugo.

      O ngayon sabihin mo sa amin kung kailan kami ipinanganak para di namin alam na NANGONGOPYA kayo ng aral?!!!

      Delete
    3. Ako nagsasalita dito na may tunay na pangalan dahil alam ko tama ang mga sinasabi ko di katulad mo na nagtatago sa tunay mong identity.Baka nakakalimutan mo na ang Mga Kastilang nagdala ng Biblia at Kristianismo sa Pilipinas ang mga rapist,ang mga Priest ninyo ang mga rapist,bakit di ka magbasa ng Christian History ng Pilipinas.Hay naku Bro,di ako bumibilib sayo.

      Delete
    4. Kapatid nag research ka na ba? Na find out mo na ba ang mga rapist na Priest sa kasaysayan ng Kristianismo sa Pilipinas? Alam kong wala ka nang depensa sa pinagtatanggol mong Relihiyon.Keep silent ka na lang kapatid kasi habang humahaba ang usapan natin mas lalo ka lang masasaktan at mapapahiya.

      Delete
    5. Rapist ba kamo ang topic?

      Sige, anong pagkakaiba ng isang RAPIST na PARI at RAPIST na SUGO?

      Heto:

      Ang paring naakusahan ng panggagahasa ay HINDI na pari at nakakulong.At ang paring ito ay HINDI sugo kundi HAMAK na pari lamang. Hindi nakasalalay sa kanya ang kaligtasan ng buong Iglesia kundi kay Cristo.

      Heto naman ang tungkol kay Felix Manalo:

      Si Felix Manalo ay inakusahan din ng panggagahasa. Hindi nakulong! At HINDI natiwalag. Bagamat naturingang MAN OF LOW MORALE ng koret pero nanatiling SUGO ang kanyang katayuan at NAKASALALAY sa kanya ang KALIGTASAN ng Iglesia ni Cristo-- RAPIST din un.

      Kita mo ang pagkakaiba?

      Sige try harder!

      Delete
  9. Anyway, where are the INC members? Why are you silent? Common speak up. Let's have a healthy discussion here. We know that you are not allowed by your administration to read other literatures except those publications that are produced by your Church that teaches you lies and deceptions and you're not also allowed to get involve in discussions because you are not trained how to lie and twist the truth like your ministers. Common guys, speak up. We will not tell your INC administration that you have been talking with us. Mag-usap tayo para malaman natin ang katotohanan.

    ReplyDelete
  10. INC - Iglesia Ng anti-Cristo

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ? ahaha.. hindi kami yan

      INAC yan ^_^

      Delete
  11. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Here is the true ending of the debate...

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O0rAgPfeRv8&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DO0rAgPfeRv8

    ReplyDelete
  13. Buddy lachica is a business partner of Eraño Manalo's INC incorporated. The latter must defend their business at all cost otherwise they would'nt have enough to support their growing business empire. To twist the truth in ways that it's being used to manipulate others is a travesty. And for the delusional psychic namely fenix manalo, I wonder where he is right now. Pewpew

    ReplyDelete
  14. nawala yung reply ko ah...hehehehe

    ReplyDelete
  15. I remember when i was invited to an "indoctrination" of this CULTO. (inamin ng isang ministro iyan sa isa sa mga services nila na npuntahan ko, maalala ko bautisado na ata ako noon. My questioning mind came with these things that when i voiced it out to a new manggagawa natawa ako sa sagot niya. Then a ministro came to persuade me the last time to keep my alligiance to the "iglesia" but rather of winning me back, became harsh of me (trademark na yata nila iyan...sabi nga ng ilan anything catholic, INCM HATES TO THE HIGHEST HEAVENS AND TO THE LOWEST HELL) and here are they.
    1. In the PANDOKTRINA book which they refuse to give me a copy (nakapagtataka, paano ako magiging mabuting iglesia kung ang mismong aklat ng mga aral ay bawal ariin ng isang miembro, bakit?) the manggagawa spoke of 7 spirits that move over the water. I was not aware that the mangagawa is trying to inculcate in my mind (like that of mind suggestion) that catholics believe in this notion that I, a catholic then would surely agree with him (I agreed).
    2. Baptism is essential to one's salvation.
    Dito sa 2 issues na ito lang ako magde-delve dahil personal ko itong naranasan, as i have stated them up there.
    1. Sabi ko hindi yata naniniwala ang mga katoliko sa 7 espiritu santo. Lahat nang kausapin ko ngayon eh walang ganun paniniwala. baka sa mga nakaraang panahon ay mayroon. History says wala. Sa mga blogg nagsusumigaw na walang katoliko na naniniwala sa ganun aral. Ang sabi niya, "tatanggapin ko raw ba ang 7 espiritu dahil nasa biblya ito? Ang inaasahan niyang sagot ay oo. Umoo ako. Nang balikan ko ang aral na ito sa iba pang manggagawa ay ganito na ang namgyari. Sabi ko, "Wala raw katolikong naniniwala na 7 ang espiritu santo. Eh, kako kung hindi pala sila naniniwala na ganun nga ang espiritu santo, e sino ang may gusto na paniwalaan ko iyon." (kung tatanggi siya, i will opt to answer na, may iglesia bang kumakain ng DUGO? I'M SURE walang iglesia aamin niyan. at hindi ko ipagpipilitan iyon dahil nga nasa isipan ko lang iyon. Kung wala sa isipan ng mga katoliko ang aral ng 7 espiritu bakit natin isasaksak sa isipan nila iyan? Baka kako tayo (iglesia) ang nanainiwala sa 7 espiritu santo. Nagalit siya (trademark na yata nila yan?), tayo ba pinaniwalaan natin ang 7 espiritu gaya ng gusto mong isipin ko? THERE CAME NO ANSWER. Maybe dahil "double-edged sword" at risky ang tanong. Still, i was not aware that i'm posing a dangerous question. Kapag sinabi niya na hindi naniniwala ang iglesia sa talatang iyon na nagsasaad ng 7 espiritu, eh anong mga espiritu iyon (tandaan, THEY ARE TRYING IMPLY THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT SEPARATED INTO SEVEN OTHER SPIRITS AND THESE SEVEN SPIRITS ARE THE HOLY SPIRIT). AGAIN, THERE CAME NO ANSWER. Naniniwala tayo sa biblya, ano ang mga espiritung iyon? Pangalawa, Kung tatanggapin naman, magugulo ang formula ng baptism tulad nito, "in the name of the father (god), of the son (man), and the holy spirit (7 spirits). E lalabas na polytheists na tayo. If they are to offer, na lesser spirits iyon, then why refer them as the Holy Spirits when pointing to a catholic?
    2. The importance of the baptism...WHY DID JESUS INSTITUTED THE BAPTISM? IS JESUS A SINNER? OR JESUS IS TRYING TO PROTECT SOMETHING FROM SOMETHING? CAN ANYONE AT ANY POINT IN TIME DISREGARD THE IMPORTANCE OF BAPTISM?
    Matibay ang mensahe na ipinaabot ng bautismo ng Panginoong Jesus. Ginawa niya ito upang protektahan ang simbahang tatag niya. Dahil dito, WALANG MAG-AANGKIN NG PAGIGING HALAL NA MANGANGARAL HANGGANG WALANG BAUTISMO. Tinanong ko siya, "sino ang nag-bautismo kay Ka Felix Manalo? hE STARTED TO GIVE THE "ANGEL FROM THE EAST THEORY". May kweto rin ako tungkol dito which i will continue next time...up to y "TIWALAG" FATE.
    See you next time...God Bless.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ganyan ang mga PEKENG SUGO... gumagawa ng sariling aral at minamali ang iba, at nagpipiesta sa kamalian ng kalaban upang makaakit ng kaanib!

      Kaya makita mo ang mga kaanib nilang lahat? Lahat sila ANTI-CRISTO at ANTI-CATHOLIC!

      Delete
  16. NEW ERA UNIVERSITY - ERANO MANALO
    SYUDAD DE VICTORIA - LUNGSOD NG MANALO

    BUSINESS NGA!!

    KAYA PALA PURO MANALO ANG NAGIGING EXECUTIVE MINISTER NILA..DI BA PEDENG IBA NAMAN PARA DI MASYADO HALATA..LOL

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. EVengelization Mission = EVM = EDUARDO V. MANALO
      NEW ERA University = ERANO University
      SIUDAD DE VICTORIA = City of MANALO

      MANALONG MANALO talaga ang INC!

      Delete

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