Engr. Rafael Riorito O. Estorque's Article on Panoncillo (INC™) vs Cartujano (Catholic) Debate

7 VERSUS 1 – 1 IS THE WINNER? 

By Engr. Rafael Riorito O. Estorque

If we watch the debate, Mr. Cartujano admitted he was not able to provide a magazine xerox or answer the question of Mr. Panoncillo about the pasugo issue. Mr. Panoncilo was referring to page 11 of the book, Answering Iglesia ni Cristo. What about the SEVEN QUESTIONS asked by Mr. Cartujano? Can Mr. Panoncillo admit that he was not able to answer these since he gave irrelevant answers? INC members will surely say their minister gave correct answers. Yet, if we analyze the questions, was Mr. Panoncillo able to answer them?

1. Did Mr. Panoncillo provide a 3rd century manuscript with the words “MONOGENES HUIOS”? Mr. Cartujano showed a 3rd century manuscript with the words, "MONOGENES THEOS" through the projector during his first cross examination. Did Mr. Panoncillo show any 3rd century manuscript with the words “MONOGENES HUIOS”? NONE. What did Mr. Panoncillo do? He read the Jerusalem Bible (English translation) and his only answer was,"HINDI KUMO LUMA ANG MANUSCRIPTS AY YUN NA TAMA". Mr. Panoncillo did not show any book during the debate which stated the statement of textual scholars that support, “HINDI KUMO LUMA ANG MANUSCRIPTS AY YUN NA TAMA,” particularly John 1:18.

A Challenge of Bro. Duane to INC's Top Defender Mr. Jose Ventilacion!

My Message for Joe Ventilacion (INC™) Regarding His Education At Harvard University

Source: The Splendor of the Church Blog

When Kuya Adviser posted his article on his FB page, Ventilacion posted comments on his FB page about me. He said I was challenging him and asking questions about textual criticism and that I have to study more about this topic.

He is simply boasting that he studied at Harvard University. He posted this on his FB Page conspicuously.

I am just wondering who among bible and textual scholars from Harvard University favor the interpretation made by Jose Ventilacion.

I asked Dr. Eugene Ulrich, a former professor at Harvard University who among his colleagues do not agree with King Cyrus referring to “Bird of Prey” in Isaiah 46:11. It is clear that Ventilacion does not concur with this and instead, he makes it appear that Felix Manalo is the one just like what his Church is doing.

Here is the email response of Dr. Eugene Ulrich:

By the way, Dr. Eugene Ulrich is one of my mentors in Biblical Languages.

Now, you studied at Harvard but you did not follow your professors and mentors in textual criticism who said explicitly that Cyrus is really being referred to as the Bird of Prey in Isaiah 46:11 and yet, it is Manalo whom you are pointing at.

It is clear you studied at Harvard University not to learn from the experts and it is not for you to boast about it. So, you do not follow what you learned.

You attended the SBL Annual Meeting and you were given the go-signal by your Executive Minister, Eduardo V. Manalo.

If it was Dr. James Richard Saley who delivered the lecture and you attended that, participated and listened; is it not a slap on your face as a result of what is written in your Pasugo Magazine?

I asked Dr. Eugene Ulrich if he knows Dr. James Richard Saley. Dr. Eugene Ulrich told me they are good friends and he presumes Dr. Saley is a Protestant.

Does Dr. James Richard Saley know that you taught your listeners that Felix Manalo is the Bird of Prey in Isaiah 46:11? Can you ask him if he agrees with your interpretation? 🙂

So, Joe Ventilacion listened to a Protestant whom you addressed as Devil. And, you studied at Harvard University wherein some professors are Protestants.

I give you 2 weeks to answer my post at splendor that INC members can read. I pray that you will be enlightened as well as them someday or they will soon realize your false teachings.

Answer the following because you studied textual criticism at Harvard University:

1. Who are the Bible Professors and Textual Scholars from Harvard University favor your interpretation that Felix Manalo is the Bird of Prey in Isaiah 46:11?
2. Who are the textual scholars from Harvard University who taught you that you translated Mizrach in Isaiah 43:5 of Aleppo Codex as “Far East”? Give me the names of at least 3 textual scholars.
3. Who are the textual scholars from Harvard University whom you can prove translated the Greek word (Logos) in John 1:1 to “idea” as you did?
4. Who are the textual scholars (at least three) from Harvard University who can give testimonies that your LAMSA Translation is Accurate?

I will wait for your reply, Joe Ventilacion.

And, if you are boasting that we need to square off in a debate, do not give me any conditions that I should pay for the venue rental since there are many public venues which are free.

Just tell me when and I will submit my proposal to the nearest INC Local.

Prove that the LAMSA is accurate using Greek text and testimonies of Aramaic scholars if you are really intelligent in textual criticism and that I still need to study.

Sincerely,

Bro. Duane

Iglesia Ni Cristo (INC™) Magazine PASUGO Boasted Ventilacion over Mr. Jesse Romero in a Debate

[Watch: Jesse Romero vs Jose Ventilacion. Visit the official website of Mr. Jesse Romero; as of March 2015, no official website for Jose Ventilacion]

‘Church Of Christ’ Reaffirmed in Debate as the True Church
By Gene N. Abella

An audience estimated to 2,000 filled to standing-room-only capacity the Fox Theatre in the City of Visalia in Northern California during a public debate held on January 20, 2012 between a group representing the Roman Catholic Church and the Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church Of Christ).

The topic of the debate was “Which is the True Church?” Taking up the cudgels for the Catholic Church was Mr. Jesse Romero, a lay Catholic evangelist and retired Los Angeles deputy sheriff who was brought in by the Lumen Christi, a Catholic men’s Bible Study group in Visalia, with two associates helping him. Representing the Iglesia Ni Cristo ws Brother Jose J. Ventilacion, a minister of the gospel and an instructor at the College of Evanglical Ministry in the Philippines, with fellow-ministers Rolando Dizon and Rommel San Pedro assisting him.

Mr. Jesse Romero, anchored his stand that “the Catholic Church is the true church” in the Catholic doctrine that Apostle Peter is the foundation stone of the church and was the first pope of the Catholic Church, thereby establishing the papacy which continues up to this day. He asserted that Apostle Peter was appointed as, what he called, “Prime Minister” when our Lord Jesus Christ said in Matthew 16:19, thus: And I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven”.

Mr. Romero asserted that Apostle Peter alone was given the figurative key, which he said was a badge of authority given to him by Christ. With this authority, the concluded, Apostle Peter had primacy over the other apostles, as purportedly evidenced by our Lord Jesus Christ always calling on him first, and on one occasion saying to him “Feed my sheep” three times. All these, he assumed, support his statement that Apostle Peter was the Prime Minister of Christ’s kingdom on earth which, he said, is permanent and extends to this day, with the popes as Peter’s successors.

When cross-examined about who presided over the Council of Jerusalem in 50 A.D., Romero said it was Apostle James. However, when shown a Catholic reference which claims that it as Apostle Peter who presided over that council, he later claimed, in order to avoid embarrassment, that “all the apostles” presided. Brother Jose Ventilacion refuted that position by citing Acts 15:19 in which Apostle James said, “it is my judgment” which proves that only one made the final judgment. Thus, Apostle James is the leader of the Church, not Apostle Peter. In other instances, Apostle Peter, himself, recognized James s the leader when he said “Go, tell these things to James and to the brethren” (Acts 12:16-17, New King James Version) when the people in the house of Mary were surprised to see him out of prison where he was kept by King Herod, but was released by an angel sent by the Lord. Apostle Paul, also recognized the leadership of James as can be read in Galatians 2:9.

Brother Ventilacion countered Mr. Romero’s stand by reading verses directly from the Holy Scriptures such as Acts 20:28 (Lamsa Translation), which show that it is by the name “Church Of Christ”—not Roman Catholic Church—that the apostles called the Church built or established by Christ (Matt. 16:18).

Brother Ventilacion emphasized that to regard Apostle Peter as the foundation stone of the true Church is contrary to biblical truth and a usurpation of the authority and supremacy of the Lord Jesus Christ. This he proved by reading Ephesians 2:20 which shows that Jesus Himself is the chief cornerstone and I Corinthian 3:11 which says, “For God has already placed Jesus Christ as the one and only foundation, and no other foundation can be laid” (Today’s English Version).

To cap his presentation, Brother Ventilacion went on to explain that the reestablishment of the Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church Of Christ) in the Philippines in 1914 is the fulfillment of prophecies in the Bible. It is the third group referred to in the prophesy in Acts 2:39, New King James Version, thus: “For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” “You” in the verse refers to the Jews (first group), and “your children” to the Gentiles (second group) who joined the Church during the time of the apostles (Rom. 9:24). “Afar off” refers to the Far East (Isa. 43:5, Moffat Translation), in the islands of the sea (Isa. 24:15, NIV), particularly the Philippines (Asia and the Philippines, p. 169).

With the promise of Almighty God when he said “Fear not for I am with you; I will bring your descendants from the east, And gather you from the west” (Isa. 43:5, NKJV), the Iglesia Ni Cristo has grown and spread dramatically and is now firmly established in more than 90 countries and territories around the world, teaching the pure gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, recognizing “only one God, the Father, and one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus” who is the foundation stone of the Church.

Brother Ventilacion ended his discourse with an open invitation to the nonmembers present to join the Iglesia Ni Cristo, the true Church established and owned by our Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12, Ibid.)

Source: PASUGO: God's Message, pp. 19-20

The Catholic Church is not even mentioned in the Bible -INC™ Ministers

I am pretty much sure there's no such words written in Mt. 16:18 as "Catholic and Apostolic church" But that does not mean the CATHOLIC CHURCH is a fake church! 

But that error does not even help them in their claim that the Iglesia Ni Cristo® is the "true" church founded by Christ.

As far as the IGLESIA NI CRISTO® is concern, they should not deny the FACT that the INC™ Hierarchy ACCEPTS the TRUTH that the CATHOLIC CHURCH is the ORIGINAL CHURCH ESTABLISHED by CHRIST and wasn't apostatized yet, thus admitting that the IGLESIA NI CRISTO® is a fake church.

If the Catholic Church is the true Church founded by Christ and it's still existing until now, then the Iglesia Ni Cristo®'s TOTAL APOSTASY doctrine simply yields to the fact that the INC™ is definitely a FAKE CHURCH.

That was recorded in their OFFICIAL MAGAZINE called PASUGO, "Hindi niya (diablo) ginawang biglaan ang pagtalikod..." referring to the Catholic Church, in 1966 was still the TRUE CHURCH, almost 52 years after the INC™ was established in Punta, Santa Ana in Manila.

PASUGO, Abril 1966, p. 46:

“Ang totoo hanggang sa kasalukuyan ay patuloy na ginagawa ni Satanas ang pagpapasok ng mga maling aral sa Iglesia Katolika na sa pasimula'y siyang Iglesia ni Cristo. Sadyang matalino at tuso ang diablo. Hindi niya ginawang biglaan ang pagtalikod sa Iglesiang itinayo ni Cristo noong unang siglo."

PASUGO July August 1988 pp. 6.

“Even secular history shows a direct time link between the Catholic Church and the Apostles, leading to the conclusion that the true Church of Christ is the Catholic Church.”

 PASUGO March-April 1992, p. 22

"The Church of Christ during the time of the Apostles became the Catholic Church of the bishops in the second century..."

Which is the True One Church? A debate between a Catholic Apologist and an Iglesia ni Cristo Minister

Jesse Romero (Roman Catholic) vs Jose Ventilacion (INC) Debate

Nahuling PANDARAYA ng mga INC® sa isang debate!

Formal Debate: Catholic Apologists vs Iglesia ni Cristo Deceivers

Thanks to Fr. Abe Arganiosa for providing this video

Ventilacion: [1:16:51] Mr. Alvin, kanina binanggit mo ang pangalang... 'Iglesia ni Cristo', yun bang nasa Roma 16:16 ay ang Iglesiang itinayo ni Cristo?... you mentioned kanina the church established by Christ. Medyo interesado ako. Yun bang iglesiang itinatag ni Cristo, yun ba yung nasa Romans 16:16?

CD2000: Ang "mga iglesia ni Cristo" na binabanggit sa Roma 16:16 ay patungkol sa mga iglesiang kay Cristo at HINDI TATAG ng taong katulad ni Felix Manalo. Huwag ka nang mangarap.  

Sulat ito ni Apostol San Pablo sa mga KRISTIANO SA ROMA.  "Ang lahat ng mga iglesia ni Cristo ay bumabati sa INYO". 

Hindi porke't nabanggit lang ang mga salitang "iglesia ni Cristo" ay kayo na!

Himay-himayin natin ang Roma 16:16 [may naisulat na rin akong artikulo tungkol dito].  Sulat po ito ni Apostol Pablo sa mga TAGA-ROMA at hindi Pinas!  

Ang sabi ni Apostol Pablo ay "BINABATI" nga raw ng LAHAT ng mga iglesia ni Cristo ang IGLESIA SA ROMA!  

Malinaw po yan!  IGLESIA po sa ROMA ang BINABATI ng LAHAT ng mga iglesia ni Cristo!

Ang mga katagang ito ni Apostol San Pablo ay HINDI natupad sa INC ni Manalo. Ito'y NATUPAD sa IGLESIA sa ROMA!

Tingnan niyo ang mapa sa ibaba!

Source: Wikipedia

Yung Green (Luntian) ay mga bansang may Diplomatic Ties o kaya'y may Apostolic Delegates sa IGLESIA sa ROMA. Taon-taon ay nagpapadala sila ng PAGBATI sa IGLESIA sa ROMA.  

BINABATI nga naman ng mga iglesia ni Cristo ang IGLESIA SA ROMA. Eh bakit ang "Iglesia ni Cristo-1914" ay HINDI BUMABATI sa IGLESIA sa ROMA? 

Dahil diyan, lalong LUMILITAW na HINDI SILA ang binabanggit sa Roma 16:16 kundi TAYONG mga KATOLIKO yon!

Yung mga kulay Gray (Abo) naman ay ang mga bansang WALA pang  foreign delegation o sadyang mapanganib sa mga Kritsiano. Ang PAG-UUSIG sa mga kaanib ng IGLESIA sa ROMA ay hindi matawaran sa tindi.  Ito ay ang mga bansang:

• Kingdom of Bhutan -Buddhism (see Roman Catholicism in Bhutan)
• Republic of the Maldives (see Roman Catholicism in the Maldives)
• People's Republic of China (see Roman Catholicism in China)
• Democratic People's Republic of Korea (see Roman Catholicism in North Korea)

Bagamat ang mga bansang ito ay walang diplomatic ties o formal o informal Apostolic Delegates mula sa Iglesia sa Roma ngunit may mga kaanib ng Iglesia Katolika sa mga bansang nabangit.  

Ngayon Ginoong Ventilacion, alin nga ba ang IGLESIANG BINABANGGIT sa ROMA 16:16? Iglesia sa Roma ba o Iglesia sa Pinas? At alin nga ba ang IGLESIA NI CRISTO na binabanggit ni Apostol San Pablo noong Unang Siglo, ang Iglesia noong 33 AD or ang INC 1914?

PASUGO, Abril 1966, p. 46:
“Ang totoo hanggang sa kasalukuyan ay patuloy na ginagawa ni Satanas ang pagpapasok ng mga maling aral sa Iglesia Katolika na sa pasimula'y siyang Iglesia ni Cristo. Sadyang matalino at tuso ang diablo. Hindi niya ginawang biglaan ang pagtalikod sa Iglesiang itinayo ni Cristo noong unang siglo."

PASUGO July August 1988 pp. 6. 

“Even secular history shows a direct time link between the Catholic Church and the Apostles, leading to the conclusion that the true Church of Christ is the Catholic Church.”

Ventilacion: [1:55:09] Yung nasa Bagong Tipan hindi ko pwedeng tutulan yan. Pero sa Batong Tipan, ipakita mo rin na naordinahan si John the Baptist!

CD2000: Mr. Ventilacion, kung gagamitin pala natin ang pamantayan mo sa pagpapatunay na HINDI na kailangan ng ordinasyon kay Felix Manalo (bilang sugo) katulad ng pagkasugo kay Juan Bautista na hindi na nangailangan ng ordinasyon, ang tanong magkapantay ba ang tungkulin ni Juan Baustista kay Felix Manalo?  Si Juan Bautista ay kinasihan ng Dios at hinulaan ang pagdating at nasusulat ang kanyang pagkasugo maging ang kanyang pangalan-- nasusulat ba ang pagkasugo ni Felix Manalo, maging ang kanyang pangalan sa Banal na Biblia upang PANTAY ang paghahambing natin sa pagkasugo ni Juan Baustista kay Felix Manalo?

And we can't brush aside their despicable "manners" and the gross dishonesty on the side of these top-INC apologists deceiving many during this formal debate!